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nlalyst

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It's funny the RoC considers itself ranked 6th. Funny because anyone who knows anything about Taiwan and its culture, knows that females are relegated to a lower social class and far more "sexualised" and relegated to being objectified that way. It's hard to measure these things but it is definite that mainland's tidbits and remnants of socialist mindsets, both in Marxist and Trotskyist derived atitudes, may have been partially responsible for whatever improvements in overall gender equality, Taiwan is thoroughly old world in every way except surface cosmetics. This is both a good and bad thing depending on personal beliefs but it's still hilarious they rank themselves at 6th. Maybe in workplace representation and income metrics and similar things like that but I know for a fact that even these two things are entirely untrue, so makes one wonder on what basis they rank themselves so highly. Women are expected to go into certain fields and almost definitely earn much less than male counterparts in Taiwan. It's not horrible, but it ain't 6th.

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I've personally had quite a few East Asian women complain about the treatment they receive in their societies. The one that really surprised me was Chinese. She complained that her sexual market worth was close to worthless in China: late 20s, pretty hot in my opinion and from a upper middle class family. I was surprised that she described her plight in such Darwinian terms and even more so that Chinese guys would actually pass up on her.
 
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ougoah

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I've personally had quite a few East Asian women complain about the treatment they receive in their societies. The one that really surprised me was Chinese. She complained that her sexual market worth was close to worthless in China: late 20s, pretty hot in my opinion and from a upper middle class family.

That sexual market value of female in Chinese society was very perplexing to me in the past. It seems like a reverse of what is intuitive and certainly what is the case in the west. Plenty of otherwise intelligent, reasonably attractive, and overall "decent" females simply finding no luck in dating. Partly due to elevated standards compared to the past, and partly due to cultural differences in age gap acceptability, overall different sets of relationship expectations compared to western ones. The reverse side of this is that the lower end of the spectrum for men (in terms of socially normalised criteria for value) have absolutely no luck and no hope. They typically need to settle for even worse or go abroad to poorer nations to find partners. At least the "leftover women" in China actually can settle without much adjustment in expectations unlike the lower end of the male spectrum.

I've noticed the upper end, even mid to upper for males in China are fortuitously blessed. Both in the sense that they can date pretty wide age gaps (younger) and that they often are lucky enough to get very attractive females. The only condition is family status is reasonably decent and they make money. That cannot be emphasised enough. Obviously this is personal observation and it is my conjecture. Exceptions don't take away from general trends.

I've personally had plenty of white western women complain to me about treatment they receive in the west. Same with one Indian woman about Indian society. The only group that doesn't seem to complain about treatment are middle eastern women. Chinese women I know don't complain about Chinese society and women's treatment and place. Of course I'm sure there are many that do... usually all of them would be westernised Chinese women who were born and/or grew up in the west. Maybe the one you know laments about the whole "leftover women" issue and due to favourable overall circumstances, is aiming very high and failing to secure a high value male that she is satisfied with. Chinese male on the higher end of the spectrum are absolutely spoiled for choice. Looks, wealth, status/connection/career. Just need two and the women basically chase you. I know plenty of average to below average looking guys who have the latter "achievements" and have a string of attractive girlfriends month after month.

Another aspect is prostitution which is unfortunately/fortunately actually easily accessible in China. Married and single friends who frequent that lifestyle insist it is simply impossible to go without. So men have plenty of options for the more primal needs. Companionship and genuine relationships require a bit more finesse.

Basically the lower half or so are devastated and their loss is the gain of the upper half for men. Women have more choice than they believe unless they're toward the lower end in terms of looks and in that case, it's also difficult but not as bad as a male without any of those three "qualities".

The situation is much worse for Japanese women... and I'd say slightly worse off for Taiwanese ones too simply because their societies suffer from similar cultural "problematic" attitudes but with much more stringent gender roles and conservative values than mainland women currently do ... and even since the cultural revolution.
 

nlalyst

Junior Member
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I've noticed the upper end, even mid to upper for males in China are fortuitously blessed. Both in the sense that they can date pretty wide age gaps (younger) and that they often are lucky enough to get very attractive females. The only condition is family status is reasonably decent and they make money. That cannot be emphasised enough. Obviously this is personal observation and it is my conjecture. Exceptions don't take away from general trends.
I wonder if hypergamy is just a symptom of gender income imbalance. Once women are financially on an even footing with men and financially independent, there will be less incentive for them to marry up and those guys will have to start putting in actual effort.
Chinese women I know don't complain about Chinese society and women's treatment and place. Of course I'm sure there are many that do... usually all of them would be westernised Chinese women who were born and/or grew up in the west. Maybe the one you know laments about the whole "leftover women" issue and due to favourable overall circumstances, is aiming very high and failing to secure a high value male that she is satisfied with. Chinese male on the higher end of the spectrum are absolutely spoiled for choice. Looks, wealth, status/connection/career. Just need two and the women basically chase you. I know plenty of average to below average looking guys who have the latter "achievements" and have a string of attractive girlfriends month after month.
My impression is that they are not exactly encouraged to speak up.

While there has been great progress in gender equality during Mao's era, since the 80s there appears to have been a sort of regression, that started with the denigration of the iron women. I should also mention the police suppression of feminist activists and even the MeeToo activists. And finally, there are some truly dark facts, like marital rape not being a crime in China.

Thanks to the substantial demographic gender imbalance in China, women do have more choice, yes. At the same time, they face immense social pressure to marry young and undermine their career prospects, placing them into a financially dependent position towards men.
The situation is much worse for Japanese women... and I'd say slightly worse off for Taiwanese ones too simply because their societies suffer from similar cultural "problematic" attitudes but with much more stringent gender roles and conservative values than mainland women currently do ... and even since the cultural revolution.
As a frequent traveler to Japan, I can attest to their still conservative (but improving) view of women in society. I would not hazard to make a comparison though, as my experience with China and Taiwan is limited.
 
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davidau

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I've personally had quite a few East Asian women complain about the treatment they receive in their societies. The one that really surprised me was Chinese. She complained that her sexual market worth was close to worthless in China: late 20s, pretty hot in my opinion and from a upper middle class family. I was surprised that she described her plight in such Darwinian terms and even more so that Chinese guys would actually pass up on her.
I thought this forums is for defence, military related matters. Why air this useless piece of info of sexual market in this web?
 

ougoah

Major
Registered Member
Was this not originally related to the observation that there seem to be growing number of women in serious positions within the Chinese military? Thought it came from that conversation.
 

t2contra

Major
Was this not originally related to the observation that there seem to be growing number of women in serious positions within the Chinese military? Thought it came from that conversation.

That and the growing number of Chinese women billionaires often have the tendency to steer the discussion in a different direction.
 

davidau

Junior Member
Registered Member
Was this not originally related to the observation that there seem to be growing number of women in serious positions within the Chinese military? Thought it came from that conversation.
Yes China has some brilliant female military scientists, engineers, aeronautics, mathemticians etc in high ranking postions. As Chairman Mao once said women hold up half the heaven. How true!
 

ougoah

Major
Registered Member
I didn't see that trend. It was always there. Women have often held serious military positions in the PLA and in Chinese government and corporate world. It is stupid not to have equality in a meritocratic society... at least one that strives towards being an ideal one.

China's systemic gender equality has been there since the revolution and overall it's one of the better countries out there. I know the usual suspects will try their hardest to create something out of nothing but that is their way.
 

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