Artillery regiment questions

Gollevainen said:

SP can give the crew a cover against shnarbelz but a towed gun doesent go out of operations from snharbelz anymore than SP system.

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Actually yes. Shrapnel makes a mess out of APU guns guncrew. In addition shrapnels tear up the APU system and fancy electronics. Old field guns were more survivable in this respect. In addition, if we're speaking about mobile operations the ammunition lies out there in the open. Even if the shells and charges don't ignite they're subject to shrapnel damage. Additionally there's the towing truck which is vulnerable.

Despite what someone things becouse the high emphasis of technological revolution, artillery is still the back bone of any land army. Its the element that destroyes the enemy, a credit that too many are too eager to give to the infantry and armour. They manouvre, artillery destroys.

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Agreed, but modern times require modern artillery using modern munitions with modern tactics. Days of pure HE are days long gone past.

the truck isent anywhere near of the gun...
And if APU brokes down, the magic is that you still have old fasionable towed gun that can be used in the "old" way, something that you cannot say of the SP system, if it suffers even normal mechanical maulfunctuion...

Agreed, but modern times require modern artillery using modern munitions with modern tactics. Days of pure HE are days long gone past.

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Offcourse. But the ammunitions dont ask in wich carriage they are fired, nor does the fact change that they are fired in ballistic trajectory.
SP and Towed system shares the same basic element, the tube and its lock. even the fire controll systems can be same in both modes. Like in NATO, all 155mm ammunition are standard and can be fired with all 155mm weapons. Like for example, our basic "piggies" could take fancy NATO fuses or they can be fitted with time-fuses or the basic soviet made fuses without a wink of an eye..
The advantages and leaps in ammunition benefits the whole artillery branch, it in any case arent making some element of it outdated.

The claim that Im making is that APU brings towed artillery into 21st century and there is still room for it in modern and in future armies. Artillery is still the back bone of ground forces destructive power and any regiment/brigade level unit needs its organic fire support branch, this isent something that is an priviledge of some shining new elite armoured units. Its like claiming that some troops can have rifles and others dont need them.

Modern PLA cannot be simply a force of all tracked armour brigades, and the reality is that almoust all its current artillery needs rabid replacement...its simply astronomical to think that it could all be done with SP units, and plain fanboy sillyness to think that only elite units can have artillery. The vast infantry and motorised brigades/divisions still needs their fire support branch as well, and in there the APU fitted towed guns are the most atractive (and in some cases, most ideal) choise.

And just how far do they park the trucks from the firing positions, this is more effective than just coming to a complete stop and firing a barrage and moving out on the spot? yes it may fire the same munitions but you get better survivibility in a armored SP along with quicker reaction times with the assistance of auto loaders and FCU`s. Also being pulled by a truck gives you limited terrian crossing capabilities which really places you in a real jam. I have taught battlefield tactics and have served with many armored units with the U.S Army including serving in combat to have nothing but a deep appreciation for the air land battle doctrine, you are correct that armored units are not the only fighting force that decides a battle but they do serve as your primary source for taking the fight to your opponent and mauling the dog snot out of him and taking away/destroying his scheme of manuever, when you do this then he is broken and you get him to fight on your terms. Modern technology on the battlefield is quite shocking for the capabilities that are out there, defensive let`s just dig a hole and waite for the enemy posture just doesn`t cut it anymore, if you stay in one spot for any length of time then you become nothing more then a target of opportunity thus requiring a fluid defensive posture, SP`s afford you a quicker reaction time to fire and move with your units over towed guns and they will survive whole alot better.

well at least for, us the trucks always find their spots...and its amazing to see how nible and agile good cross country truck can be, not to mention the actual APU unit...And If something can cope on our terrain, I belive it can cope in any terrain...I have also first hand experience of how to dig a gun from the swamppy bog....it took whole nigth. If we would have had SP system, it would have taken whole week.

But I preciate tracked vehicles cross country capilities, thats why armoured units is essential to have tracked SP system in those units. But Again, you must also know how unfitted tracked units are in long range deloyment. Like for example in our main wargame, we drowe 900 km to get to the target area...same time our armoured brigade with SP systems needed to travel via train back. Many armies are now creating rabid reaction units that travel fast in existing urban motorways with wheeled AIFVs and possibly with helicopters. There isent place for heavy, clumsy steel monsters in these units

There will be two types of brigades or divisions of field army in PLA, tracked and wheeled. They both have tanks, IFV and APC are tracked vs wheeled. Including missile vehecles (AA or AT etc.), MRLS, also tracked vs wheeled. But currently, the artilleries including AA guns are both tracked.

Gollevainen said:

well at least for, us the trucks always find their spots...and its amazing to see how nible and agile good cross country truck can be, not to mention the actual APU unit...And If something can cope on our terrain, I belive it can cope in any terrain...I have also first hand experience of how to dig a gun from the swamppy bog....it took whole nigth. If we would have had SP system, it would have taken whole week.

But I preciate tracked vehicles cross country capilities, thats why armoured units is essential to have tracked SP system in those units. But Again, you must also know how unfitted tracked units are in long range deloyment. Like for example in our main wargame, we drowe 900 km to get to the target area...same time our armoured brigade with SP systems needed to travel via train back. Many armies are now creating rabid reaction units that travel fast in existing urban motorways with wheeled AIFVs and possibly with helicopters. There isent place for heavy, clumsy steel monsters in these units

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But why would you need to dig a SP system in, also if you are traveling down the road air assets will have a field day with you. I am not saying that field howitzers do not serve a purpose, in certain scenarios they can when you have control of the battlefield.

I ment dug out a system that had sank in the bog accidentally, sorry for my bad choise of words.

Gollevainen said:

No SP battery consists of 4 guns. Also over 10 ton APU fitted gun isen't any obstacle, the PLL01 (The GNH-45 copy) already weights that much and the standart 3-axel cross-country truck has no limitations to haul such a gun.

Tracked SP guns are good choise for armoured divisions but not to lighlty amoured and mechanised units. China with the largest landforces in the world cannot and should not try to have entirely tracked based divisions. Its forced to have its main bulk of forces made from smei-mechanised/motorised divisions which mainly travel with trucks or Wheeled ACPs. In fact this is what has happened.

There is already prototypes of both APU fitted towed gun based on the PLL01 and truck-mounted SP gun as well. Sofar these systems are reportetly offered for export but I hope that in the future they will play a role in the huge task to modernizate the main divisional level artillery (remember all infantry divisions and brigades have at least artillery battalion) in china which sadly is still very obcolent state...

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Even WS2 has 6 launchers in 1 company, I don't see why an SP company only has 4. And the speed of PLA modernization may be beyond your speculation. They show new mechanized units on TV once in a while, all their artilleries are SP and the speed of equipt new units is very fast. PLL01 was develope in late 80s and never went into mass production. It is very clear what PLA want for her artillery units.

well I dont know the exct reason why it is so, but I have seen pics of PLAs SP battereis, all had four guns, so its par with the other armies systems as well. MRLS systems are mented for different type of fire-usage and to get their maxium out of them, the batteries needs to be big as possiple, so six unit batteries are more common.

And Offcourse PLA wants PZL01, its chinas first real advanced artillery system that has been accepted for production. In current PLAs state it needs rabid decissions for its modernisations and everything that is even sligthy modern will be put into use

But the fact is the PLL01 was developed in 1987 and never went into mass production. That's 20 years already.