American Economics Thread


zbb

Junior Member
Registered Member
TBF these sorts of things go on in all many countries seeking to artificially inflate or reduce their military spending headline figures.
Sure, but no one does it to the extent of the US. I'm not aware of any other country where spending on wars, nuclear weapons, and benefits for soldiers are so often omitted from the quoted military budget. The US VA's spending alone far exceeds China's entire military budget and is ~4x the defense budget of Russia. Somehow, the supposedly independent western MSM and research institutes always fail to point this out.

On the other hand, China's official military budget is actually overstated in some sense as the PLA is tasked with many responsibilities that are not directly defense related, most notably disaster relief, poverty alleviation, and infrastructure construction in remote areas.

You could argue that PAP and China Coast Guard should fall under military spending.
PAP (People's Armed Police) is tasked with domestic security and law enforcement. If we count such activities then we would have to include domestic security and law enforcement spending in the US as well, which I expect would again be far higher in both absolute terms and in relative to GDP terms than that of China's.

Regarding the Chinese Coast Guard, they are limited to dealing with civilian vessels and activities in China's coastal waters. In contrast, the US Coast Guard has deployments all over the world, from the Persian Gulf to the South China Sea, and carry out missions that have nothing to do with domestic maritime safety. In fact, the US Coast Guard actively participated in every major US war since Desert Storm, including deployments for military operations in Afghanistan, a landlocked country! Since the US Coast Guard has took part in more wars in the last 30 years than the military of most other countries, it would be quite hard to argue that they are not an arm of the US military.
 

sndef888

Senior Member
Registered Member
Not a economics person or anything so forgive my noob question

Does anyone know why the 2008 crisis that the US caused barely affected the US economy? It barely dropped a year before rebounding and strongly growing all the way to 2020, meanwhile European economies are still stagnating around the 2008 level in per capita terms. From almost equal in per capita GDP, the US is now almost 50% higher than major European economies.

To a casual observer like me, this almost seems like a crisis the US manufactured to strengthen its position as economic top dog while keeping it's "allies" down.
 

sinophilia

Junior Member
Registered Member
Not a economics person or anything so forgive my noob question

Does anyone know why the 2008 crisis that the US caused barely affected the US economy? It barely dropped a year before rebounding and strongly growing all the way to 2020, meanwhile European economies are still stagnating around the 2008 level in per capita terms. From almost equal in per capita GDP, the US is now almost 50% higher than major European economies.

To a casual observer like me, this almost seems like a crisis the US manufactured to strengthen its position as economic top dog while keeping it's "allies" down.

Much too often people give the US credit for things they are not intellectually capable of. It was due to American incompetence that the crash happened in 2008, not genius...

The reason Europeans are still stagnating has nothing to do with that crises. They are simply an older and lower risk-taking population, not to mention not nearly as much drive to compete and bully their way to dominance on the world stage. It's the same reason Japan is slowly dying.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
The reason Europeans are still stagnating has nothing to do with that crises. They are simply an older and lower risk-taking population, not to mention not nearly as much drive to compete and bully their way to dominance on the world stage. It's the same reason Japan is slowly dying.
The EU-poors are too protectionists while also having too many laws and regulations which kills innovation and commercialization.

They are a dying continent
 

BlackWindMnt

Senior Member
Registered Member
The EU-poors are too protectionists while also having too many laws and regulations which kills innovation and commercialization.

They are a dying continent
I don't think it has to do with that, In my opinion it has to do with there being no pressure to do it domestically in Europe, China had the same thing it was easier and better to just buy the tech than to develop the tech yourself. The laws and regulation in tech only came in recently when Europe's cyberspace was already colonised.
 

gelgoog

Colonel
Registered Member
Not a economics person or anything so forgive my noob question

Does anyone know why the 2008 crisis that the US caused barely affected the US economy? It barely dropped a year before rebounding and strongly growing all the way to 2020, meanwhile European economies are still stagnating around the 2008 level in per capita terms. From almost equal in per capita GDP, the US is now almost 50% higher than major European economies.

To a casual observer like me, this almost seems like a crisis the US manufactured to strengthen its position as economic top dog while keeping it's "allies" down.

A lot of US growth was in paper. Try going to a US city and a European one and comparing both.
Much US economic growth was thanks to the growth of e-commerce and gig-economy companies like Amazon and Uber. The growth of Amazon has been killing traditional retail in the US and Covid-19 has done the rest. Uber leads to people in the taxi sector working on jobs with marginal job security. If you think either of those is a good thing for the average joe, well, I have a bridge to sell you. Yes both have pushed prices down at least in the short term and they make economic sense. But they will also lead to a loss of jobs and the ones which remain will be poorly paying or insecure jobs.
 

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
A lot of US growth was in paper. Try going to a US city and a European one and comparing both.
Much US economic growth was thanks to the growth of e-commerce and gig-economy companies like Amazon and Uber. The growth of Amazon has been killing traditional retail in the US and Covid-19 has done the rest. Uber leads to people in the taxi sector working on jobs with marginal job security. If you think either of those is a good thing for the average joe, well, I have a bridge to sell you. Yes both have pushed prices down at least in the short term and they make economic sense. But they will also lead to a loss of jobs and the ones which remain will be poorly paying or insecure jobs.
But Amazon also hires a lot of people.
 

Franklin

Captain
TBF these sorts of things go on in all many countries seeking to artificially inflate or reduce their military spending headline figures. You could argue that PAP and China Coast Guard should fall under military spending.
The PAP and the CCG both fall under the same organization of the national police. They have separate command structures, training academies, recruitment standards, budget's and mission emphasis from the PLA. But they both fall under the control of the Central Military Committee (CMC) and both are considered to be auxiliary forces of the PLA.

Some countries count their gendarmerie as a part of their military overall and some not. It seems China does not.
 

Top