American Economics Thread

MortyandRick

Junior Member
Registered Member
Correct, for example the Lockheed Martin one was a much more narrowly tailored ban. Apple is not a direct national security threat to China, unlike LM that makes weapons being sold to Taiwan making it a direct threat to China physical security.

Yes very true. Next part for retaliation could be inhibiting Boeing MAX from being allowed to fly in China due to safety concerns
 

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
I don't think China should retaliate. I don't see TikTok as essential for China's strategic development. Additionally, TikTok will still be available and able to grow in the rest of the world outside of America and India.

Guys let’s not let emotions cloud judgement and look at this from an objective point of view. Apple in China adds more than just assembly. It has developed extensive network of small suppliers and supported upgrade to China’s electronic industry. Apple’s upgrade of China’s supply chain is not just assembly employment but also development of these supply chain suppliers which allowed chinese companies to build their own phones.

I don’t feel apple should be banned in China at all. Realistically speaking China is much weaker than the US in various areas. It cannot go head to head with the US and hit back at the US with the same strategies that the US uses. That’s what the US wants. China must be more subtle and strategic in her response. That why China is not fighting fire with fire. It hurts China strategically. China is biding her time and only hit back in ways that will not hurt herself.

China still need foreign investment and foreign know how. The best way to hit back at the US is for the US to see how companies are still investing and setting up shop in China even with all the anti China activities. Foreign companies and US companies are still investing in China. That’s the key. The US would love to China to start banning western companies and close up just like in the past. China just needs to make sure she is fostering chinese companies to compete domestically while continuing o invite foreign investment. My 2 cents

That's a valid point. Maybe an Apple ban would not be a good idea. Still, China can certainly not continue to rely on Apple's supply chains assuming that it will be the basis of its own industry. Yes these supply chains have helped Chinese companies build their own phones. However, lots of countries can assemble their own phones (often using US chipsets however). Korea, Japan, and even India if not already then soon I'm sure will be assembling it's own phones.

But as we've seen with Huawei, phone assembly is weak because it lacks licenses to the software that people want. Any phone assembly company is vulnerable as we've seen with Huawei and ZTE both on the hard side (chips) and software side (GMS). The reality is that most Asian countries have been building their own hardware for decades, yet always remain second fiddle to the US because the US secret: dominance in software. Unlike hardware which can be replaced simply by buying a new device, software is embedded into consumer preferences on a lifelong basis and subject to network effects.

The only good thing that could come out of this tech war for China is to wake it up to the need to start competing in software. That is where apps like TikTok are more important than they seem. They help drive international revenue into China's software industry including areas like AI. No matter how many foreign companies invest in China, they will never hand over the keys to the kingdom, their dominance in software.

The best way to hit back against TikTok and WeChat bans is to increase restrictions on US software in China. Since most US apps are already banned or heavily restricted, what this means in practice is to accelerate the move away from Microsoft Windows and OS X. Expand the ecosystem for software developers for Huawei's App Gallery, and invest in the Unity OS and Deepin platforms. In developing its software industry, China must emphasize openness and open source. What China should do is position itself as a country with a software industry that is open to everyone, unlike the US which has built up many proprietary software companies, like Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter, etc. This is the only way China can catch up because software is essentially defined by network effects. The larger your ecosystem the more attractive it is. Regardless of China or nationalism issue, open source is a better overall solution for consumers since the source code is public and this makes it far harder to insert backdoors. We know from the Snowden leaks already that the NSA has pressured US companies to put in backdoors to its proprietary source code.
 

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
Most immediately, I would say that American products like Microsoft Skype should not be allowed to benefit from a WeChat ban. Not sure if the govt will take action there, I will probably be disappointed, but it would be horrible to allow Microsoft to benefit at the expense of WeChat due to the US govt action.
 

BMEWS

Junior Member
Registered Member
China should develop software to compete with the likes of Microsoft Office, Adobe Photoshop, 3ds max, Maya, AutoCAD, Candance, MATLAB, etc and then open source it, give it away for free to the world...
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
China should develop software to compete with the likes of Microsoft Office, Adobe Photoshop, 3ds max, Maya, AutoCAD, Candance, MATLAB, etc and then open source it, give it away for free to the world...

This is not a big deal. If there are not Chinese alternatives, there are also open source alternatives or alternative in other countries. For example there is ZXCAD which is from a Guangzhou based company and it already has 900,000 users. For Microsoft Office, you got Kingsoft's WPSOffice, which I have tried myself. Its a great Office alternative you can use on iOS and Android, if not on PC. For Photoshop, there should be a Chinese equivalent, the technology for this is already so widely available, not wisely used however in those Chinese mobile selfie and make up apps.

Chinese defense industries, government and other institutions are not likely to be using any US software because of the security risks, given that to use US software, you need to register, and these software are cloud based, can have access to your files and such.

For much of the same reason the US is trying to push Chinese app out of their market, China may already be gradually pushing US software out, gradually, and increasingly.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
This is not a big deal. If there are not Chinese alternatives, there are also open source alternatives or alternative in other countries. For example there is ZXCAD which is from a Guangzhou based company and it already has 900,000 users. For Microsoft Office, you got Kingsoft's WPSOffice, which I have tried myself. Its a great Office alternative you can use on iOS and Android, if not on PC. For Photoshop, there should be a Chinese equivalent, the technology for this is already so widely available, not wisely used however in those Chinese mobile selfie and make up apps.

Chinese defense industries, government and other institutions are not likely to be using any US software because of the security risks, given that to use US software, you need to register, and these software are cloud based, can have access to your files and such.

For much of the same reason the US is trying to push Chinese app out of their market, China may already be gradually pushing US software out, gradually, and increasingly.


Pirating is a solution. All those are piratable or can be used/updated via VPN.


It's the physical stuff that's an issue. If US stops life science products/equipment, then China won't be able to do medical research.
 

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
Guys let’s not let emotions cloud judgement and look at this from an objective point of view. Apple in China adds more than just assembly. It has developed extensive network of small suppliers and supported upgrade to China’s electronic industry. Apple’s upgrade of China’s supply chain is not just assembly employment but also development of these supply chain suppliers which allowed chinese companies to build their own phones.

I don’t feel apple should be banned in China at all. Realistically speaking China is much weaker than the US in various areas. It cannot go head to head with the US and hit back at the US with the same strategies that the US uses. That’s what the US wants. China must be more subtle and strategic in her response. That why China is not fighting fire with fire. It hurts China strategically. China is biding her time and only hit back in ways that will not hurt herself.

China still need foreign investment and foreign know how. The best way to hit back at the US is for the US to see how companies are still investing and setting up shop in China even with all the anti China activities. Foreign companies and US companies are still investing in China. That’s the key. The US would love to China to start banning western companies and close up just like in the past. China just needs to make sure she is fostering chinese companies to compete domestically while continuing o invite foreign investment. My 2 cents
They are now banning Chinese overseas, like Huawei, ZTE and tiktoc etc, while still claiming the Chinese market is not open enough. Their aim is to invade and make money from Chinese market, while depriving Chinese companies from developing markets worldwide, not just the US. They are trying to kick Chinese companies from the New York stock exchange, while finding ways of destabilizing Hong Kong as a financial center.
 

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
Pirating is a solution. All those are piratable or can be used/updated via VPN.


It's the physical stuff that's an issue. If US stops life science products/equipment, then China won't be able to do medical research.
They need to make those stuff themselves.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
They need to make those stuff themselves.

Medical science, semiconductors, jet engine materials are all things that requires time and money.

I would actually place medical science as the most difficult.

China will get to EUV machines and WS-15 engine before it makes a dent in the vast array of medical technologies.
 
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