All is not what it seems within China's High Speed Rail development.


Engineer

Major
2. Accidents on highways can be caused by factors ranging from speeding, drink-driving, falling asleep at the wheel, lose control over vehicle, etc. Railways are designed to prevent/minimise these.

Superficial? See the 2 points above.
Some stretch of roads have more accidents than others. Bad highway designs can and do lead to accidents.

The level of technology and length of tracks isn't going to be the key measure from now onwards. It will be measured by safety record.
By that standard, tracks with no trains running would have perfect safety record and being the best HSR system, which is very silly.

The line on which the accident occurred is not a dedicated high speed rail, but an upgrade of regular tracks, and running an old HSR train. Obviously, those who do not distinguish the difference between the two (high speed and regular rail) do not concern themselves with facts in the first place. They only speak in sourness over the fact that China is now leading the world in HSR technologies.

Just look at the above AP article:
  • How are rail accident and the Fukushima fiasco even comparable? Is the author trying to exaggerate a rail accident or down play a Chernobyl scale nuclear disaster?
  • Residents being unhappy with noise from the rail line? Nice try by the author but this doesn't say anything about the technologies that matter in HSR.
  • HSR losing confidence from officials? This is purely the opinion of the author, masqueraded as reporting by state media through clever writing. (Hint: everything after the phrase "a sign" is the author's opinion.)
 
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Engineer

Major
China's HSR safety record is just fine. The latest accident is just being exploited by western media vultures in order to attack China
If this accident involves those old trains, you will bet that it will somehow get linked to the confidence in China's HSR technologies.
 

Red___Sword

Junior Member
Hehe, didn't thought that one sentence of my expression of what "symptom" of those China-friendly world media had, would resulted in some insight "diagnose" to the China-friendly crowds' inspiring spirits.

In all, nothing changes. (My cunning way to put it)
 

Spartan95

Junior Member
Minimize, not completely prevent.

People might get to drive their own cars on highways, but more people die on American highways than in Chinese high-speed trains.
That is true. I do not dispute that.

And I will also state upfront that PRC's railway system is safer than her roads.

However, that misses the point of rail safety in PRC. Details below.

China's HSR safety record is just fine. The latest accident is just being exploited by western media vultures in order to attack China
Really?

Is China Daily a western media?

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Railway taking time to regain safety
Updated: 2011-08-17 08:08
By Xin Dingding (China Daily)

BEIJING - China's railway system, after increasing the speeds of trains six times since 1997 and opening more high-speed rail lines in recent years, has hit the brakes.

That reversal of a long-standing trend is meant to give railway officials time to "accumulate safety management experience", according to Railways Minister Sheng Guangzu.

The ministry published a new railway schedule, reflecting the decision to slow down trains, after one bullet train rear-ended another on July 23 in East China, killing 40 passengers and injuring nearly 200 others.

It also came about six weeks after the adoption of the previous schedule on July 1. That one had already reduced the speed of some trains from 350 km/h to 300 km/h and had bullet trains operating at two speeds to give passengers more choices.

The new schedule slows down two high-speed railways that were to be left untouched by the previous plan. The Beijing-Tianjin intercity railway and the Shanghai-Hangzhou intercity railway will both slow to 300 km/h from 350 km/h.

Meanwhile, eight rail lines that had operated at 250-km/h will now go at 200 km/h, and bullet trains that used to run at 200 km/h on old lines will go at 160 km/h.

The new schedule will take effect in two steps.

The first will affect four high-speed railways starting on Tuesday, the ministry said.

It will cause trains to run at slower speeds on three high-speed railways - the Beijing-Tianjin intercity railway, the eastern section of a hoop railway on Hainan island, and the Guangzhou-Zhuhai intercity railway.

The Beijing-Shanghai high-speed railway, for its part, will not slow down. But the number of trains running on the prominent line will decrease from 88 pairs a day to 66 pairs a day, starting on Tuesday. That change comes in part because China CNR Corp Ltd, one of the two largest train manufacturers in China, has recalled 54 bullet trains from the line for safety checks, the ministry said.

The second step will have more high-speed railways running at slower speeds, starting on Aug 28. Then on Sept 1, the ministry will resume the operation of bullet trains that had once left at night and arrived in the morning at places between Beijing and Shanghai. Those trains had been popular but were brought to a halt after the new Beijing-Shanghai railway had gone into operation.

Sheng said on Tuesday that the high-speed trains have slowed down "to increase safety redundancy and accumulate safety management experience".

The ministry also acknowledged recently that flaws exist in the way railway projects are managed.

"Some units have not paid enough attention to operations meant to ensure the safety of high-speed railways," said a report on the ministry's website.

On Sunday, Sheng admitted that flaws exist in the way that the safety of the railway system is ensured. He said those flaws can be eliminated.

"We need to see that the existing problems in railway safety came up in periods of rapid development and that these problems can be solved," he said.

Twelve teams have been sent by the State Council, China's Cabinet, to inspect the railway system for flaws.

So far, China has put 5,903 newly built high-speed railways into operation, Xinhua News Agency reported on Tuesday.

The country took only four years to increase the speeds of its trains from 160 km/h to more than 300 km/h. In comparison, Japan took 47 years to raise the speeds of its trains from 210 km/h to 300 km/h, and Germany took 20 years, said Sun Zhang, a transport professor at Tongji University.

"China can learn lessons from others," he said. "Some things, though, such as pre-operation tests and examinations, should admit no shortcuts."

"Using just a few months to test and adjust new lines is not enough. It is better to put a new line under inspection for four seasons in a row to find any problems."

Many passengers said they are happy to see that a priority is being placed on safety and said the longer trips they are taking are not bothering them. Others, meanwhile, complained that tickets for the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed railway have become scarcer now that there are fewer trains running on it.

A micro-blogger going by the name "Linglijiang" said she stood in a long line for a ticket to go from Beijing to Shanghai.

"People are cursing all of the time at the Beijing South Railway Station because tickets are so difficult to buy there now after the train services were reduced," said the netizen, who eventually got a first-class ticket for a train that left at 5 pm.

China Daily
 

Spartan95

Junior Member
Some stretch of roads have more accidents than others. Bad highway designs can and do lead to accidents.
That is certainly true.

And unfortunately, depending on the terrain, it may be unavoidable to have such stretches in certain areas (such as mountains), although this can be mitigated by imposing a lower speed limit.

By that standard, tracks with no trains running would have perfect safety record and being the best HSR system, which is very silly.
[/LIST]
Comparing inter-state with railway is like comparing apples with oranges, which is what I stated upfront that they are different.

The line on which the accident occurred is not a dedicated high speed rail, but an upgrade of regular tracks, and running an old HSR train. Obviously, those who do not distinguish the difference between the two (high speed and regular rail) do not concern themselves with facts in the first place. They only speak in sourness over the fact that China is now leading the world in HSR technologies.
Xinhuanet called the trains involved in the crash "high speed train":

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As for the upgrade of regular tracks, the Ningbo–Taizhou–Wenzhou Railway (甬台温铁路) track started construction in 2005 and was completed in 2009. Commercial service began in Sep 2009. It is designed to have an operating speed of 250km/h:

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“施工时是按照时速250公里/小时建设的。”
As for the bit about old HSR train, I suppose you are referring to the design?
 

Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
Rail accident happened all the time but when it come to China suddenly everybody and their mother start bitching about corruption, bad quality and the impending implosion of China, regime change. Instead of looking at it as just another industrial accident Here is is running at 100 mile/hr and still accident happen

Amtrak train derails in Neb.; several injured
Train apparently hit crane on the track, spokesman says
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BENKELMAN, Neb. — A train carrying more than 175 passengers from California to Chicago derailed Friday after striking equipment on the tracks in southwest Nebraska and a small number of people were taken to hospitals, a spokesman said.

Two locomotives tipped on their sides and three of the California Zephyr's 10 passenger cars left the tracks about 8 a.m. near Benkelman, near the state's borders with Kansas and Colorado, said Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari.

Magliari couldn't immediately confirm the exact number of injuries but said none was believed to be life-threatening.

Passenger Harvey Evans, 37, of Grand Island, Nebraska, said it appeared that the train struck a crane that was doing demolition on a nearby grain silo.

"All of a sudden I hear brakes. (The) train's rolling, rocking, moving side to side," said Evans, who grabbed a chair to steady himself. "All of a sudden we stopped."

It's "been a long, rough trip," said Evans, in part because the train traveling to Chicago from Emeryville, California, across the bay from San Francisco, already was running about eight hours behind schedule after hitting an abandoned car on the tracks Wednesday night near Salt Lake City.

"It's been one thing after another," Evans said.
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Dundy County Hospital spokeswoman Sandy Noffsinger said seven patients were being treated there for non-life-threatening injuries.

Amtrak said passengers who weren't taken to hospitals rode school buses to a high school gym in Benkelman, where Dundy County-Stratton Public Schools secretary Stacey Waters said volunteers were providing food and water.

Amtrak was renting private buses so the passengers could resume their journeys east, Magliari said.

It was unclear why the equipment was near or on the tracks and how fast the train was going through the relatively unpopulated stretch of southwest Nebraska, but the accident was being investigated.

Messages seeking comment were left for Dundy County emergency management and law enforcement officials.

© 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
 

ToxSic

New Member
Rail accident happened all the time but when it come to China suddenly everybody and their mother start bitching about corruption, bad quality and the impending implosion of China, regime change. Instead of looking at it as just another industrial accident Here is is running at 100 mile/hr and still accident happen

Amtrak train derails in Neb.; several injured
...
You may want to consider finding a better article for comparison considering that this one has:
*No mention people dying (ex. 40)
*Number of injuries were few compared to this topic's (~9 known)
*Not caused by lack of or failure of a collision prevention system (software or others) between two trains. (just drive your car to the tracks and see if any collision prevention saves your butt)
*Apparently no one had to bury anything... (and dig it back up)

complaints of corruption and quality is legitimate here IMO; not paying any attention to the "chinese gov's" impending doom, you may want to point out who said that for me - so I can roll my eyes too.
 
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bladerunner

Banned Idiot
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #229
Futhermore its only the standard train line , not HSR. Having said that I have read that China has the worlds busiest standard rail network with the lowest incindent of accidents per mile travelled. Thats pretty good.
 

Bltizo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I don't think the chinese crash was of one of the new hsr networks either, so i'd reserve opinion on the actual chance of a similar accident happening on the new ones until we have real info on what caused the crash from the investigation.

Regardless I agree with both posts above me.
 

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