Aircraft Carriers III

localizer said:

how many vtol f35 can take off at once

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TerraN_EmpirE said:

Well Jura see. Below.

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TerraN_EmpirE said:

I under stand that sir. And it's sort of my point. Aboard a ship fire is a huge concern on a air base fire is a huge concern. So those overlap. Damage control is a little more specialized but still trained across the board
@Jura made his crew estimate by simply taking the crew size of the Nimitz class without air component and then dividing by size to estimate his figure assuming everything around size.
This is flawed as it's doesn't care about the jobs done by the crew. It doesn't even consider who is part of the Air wing and who is part of the crew. I mean almost 2500 people serve in the Air wing the vast majority are not actually flying the planes they are the guys working the deck. Building the bombs, fixing the jets, running the engine shop and the like.

The model used is flawed because it simply assumes that Nimitz is the optimum crew size by scale. This is flawed because it doesn't consider a lot of the department and what they do. It basically assumes that if you build a carrier double the size of the Nimitz it must have double the crew.
But that's flawed as there have been ships the same size as Nimitz that have smaller crews.
It's not a question of 1 person vs So much cubic mass. After all large freighters and tankers are in Some case larger by size than Nimitz yet have tiny crews.
It's a question of function.
Nimitz class has a full compliment of 6000 give or take. Each of that 6000 has 3 meals a day. That means roughly 18,000 meals a day so the kitchen crew needs a larger department. But if you removed remove the air arm. We get about 3000, so 9000 meals a day. Well do you need as many cooks, Bakers and the like? No obviously not. You are left with excess capacity.
Queen Elizabeth class is Birthed for 1600 total. But that is just the number of beds onboard.
1600 3 meals a day 4800 meals a day. Clearly you can get away with a smaller kitchen staff.
Mind you again that's just the birth numbers the actual crew can be larger if you hot bunk.
Another one is laundry. Nimitz has a full service laundry aboard. Does it need a full service laundry? To a degree yes. As you have some specialized garments like fire resistant clothing. But you can still shrink the laundry crew as if it's just a crewman needing to wash his undies, he should be able to do that himself.
Medical, US carriers and LHA have full hospitals aboard. Other than extreme cases they can take care of most everything. But do that need that?
No.
For general mission needs you don't need full service. The large air wing needs more care and numbers to support it than a smaller one.

The assumption of Size to Crew is based on the idea that the crew are all mechanics and engineering and navigation. It's also flawed by age.
The Ford class has a smaller Crew than the Nimitz.
Consider for a moment the shift from nuclear to conventional. The Virginia class cruiser did not have a major air wing it had a crew of ~580.
The Ticonderoga class it's replacement is a conventionally powered navy ship it's very close in size yet only has a crew ~330 where did the 250 people go? Well they got rid of the nuclear techs, they changed weapons systems from the old school missile launchers to VLS, they shifted from analog fire control to digital. That alone makes a lot of jobs redundant. And there was a huge drop in crew size.

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Jura said:

from what I figured, the QE level of automation was the RN idea how to save money for salaries

EDIT "reduce lifetime operating costs" in the politically correct language LOL

(plus
Nov 25, 2018
)

briefly checking wiki,

Nimitz-class
Complement:

• Ship's company: 3,532

QE-class
Complement: 679 crew, not including air element;

ratio 3532/679 = 5.2 (five point two)

for displacements it's something like 100/64 which is about 1.5 (one point two)

so? the Nimitz-class operations have been perfected as far as I know, with about 35 sailors per 1kt of displacement;

in this sense the QE-class would require 64*35 = 2240 sailors, not 679! 2240 - 679 = 1561 "missing"

would be funny if it wasn't dangerous

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localizer said:

how many vtol f35 can take off at once

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Jura said:

EDIT what matters here is if the QE-class manning is dangerously low (I say it is)

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bd popeye said:

Too, too Slow. With this system they can only build six bombs an hour?! C'mon now. On old Fightin' Hanna we could crank out quite a few more than that. Of course we had several teams building bombs. An average launch on an Average day saw 10-20 A-4s launch with six to eight bombs each. These launches took place every hour and a half to two hours for 12-16 hours everyday..day after day. That's a whole lot more that 6 bombs an hours.

Aboard JFK we had 1968 style conveyors and weapons elevators that were hydraulic. They seldom if ever worked correctly. This is one of the reasons JFK never made a Vietnam combat deployment. Eventualy those weapons elevators were replaced with electrical ones and the conveyors are removed.

Give me a bunch of well trained ordnancemen with strong backs and arms..some forklifts plenty of skids(weapons dollies) and we'll get the job done...we don't need no stinkin' automation..

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