Aircraft Carriers III

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
The lift question has already been asked and answered; you just park the aircraft diagonally.

The heat problem is just a matter of coating the deck with Thermion, no rebuilding required. The RAN ships already have a ski jump,, one which WAS specifically designed for the F-35B. There are NO engineering barriers to the Izumo class or the Adelaides operating Lightnings, only political ones.
 

Timmymagic

New Member
Registered Member
The lift question has already been asked and answered; you just park the aircraft diagonally.

The heat problem is just a matter of coating the deck with Thermion, no rebuilding required. The RAN ships already have a ski jump,, one which WAS specifically designed for the F-35B. There are NO engineering barriers to the Izumo class or the Adelaides operating Lightnings, only political ones.

Actually there might be. The Adelaide Class apparently had a significant amount of aviation facilities removed from them in the design phase to focus them more on their LHD function. As a result they're a fair bit different from the Juan Carlos. To reinstate those facilities would necessitate a very complex rebuild. So complex and expensive that it may well be cheaper to just buy a dedicated aviation ship new.

The Turkish and Spanish ships will be more appropriate for the F-35B as a result. Mind you the Juan Carlos Class aren't particularly speedy...they top out at 21 knots...just like the America Class. The deck is going to get crowded as well....the RN's decision to go big was absolutely the right one.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Actually there might be. The Adelaide Class apparently had a significant amount of aviation facilities removed from them in the design phase to focus them more on their LHD function. As a result they're a fair bit different from the Juan Carlos. To reinstate those facilities would necessitate a very complex rebuild. So complex and expensive that it may well be cheaper to just buy a dedicated aviation ship new.
Equipment was omitted from the RAN ships, but installing it would not require any major structural alterations. The bulk heads are all the same, the usage of those compartments is different. If as the RAN said themselves, they couldn't afford the extra cost of redesigning the bow to omit the ski jump, why would you think they could afford a much more radical redesign of the interior compartments and layout to preclude Fixed wing aircraft? Those compartments originally intended to house support facilities for jets were simply reallocated to other purposes. They can be reallocated again. The idea that these ships were altered so as never to be able to operate the F-35B is a story put out by the RAN to avoid opposition from the RAAF to the ships.

The Turkish and Spanish ships will be more appropriate for the F-35B as a result. Mind you the Juan Carlos Class aren't particularly speedy...they top out at 21 knots...just like the America Class. The deck is going to get crowded as well....the RN's decision to go big was absolutely the right one.
I agree they aren't ideal for operating Lightnings despite being designed for the job. My main opposition to them would be they have far too small a flight deck for their size. For a 27,000tonne ship they offer hardly any more deck space than the 12,000tonne Thai carrier Chakri Narubet, The Spanish designers can hardly claim they weren't intended to be carriers because they absolutely were! It was an integral part of the design brief and they could have done a much better job in the first place.AUS.jpg DN-SD-03-11399.jpg RTN Chakri Narubet, Half the size of the RAN LHDs, same size flight deck and hangar.SHIP_LHD_Canberras_Concept_Mission_UAV_lg obi.JPG Now if they'd done this from the start, they'd have much more useful ships all round.43187029_2037082103008570_1343831555373531136_n.jpg But as they are, they still pack a lot of untapped potential.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
JERRY KYD PASSES QNLZ TO HER NEW CAPTAIN AND LEAVES THE SHIP.

It must be a sad occasion for crew and Jerry. It will be interesting to see the thoughts on the matter from Jerry, on his departure, on the upcoming documentary by Chris Terrill.

Goodbye Jerry. Thanks for bringing QNLZ and crew to level required. Onwards and upwards for him.

Welcome the new Captain. Today Captain Nick Cooke-Priest is in charge of QNLZ.

Link to original story.
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44767713_10160976683020627_1694561926249447424_n.jpg 44834591_10160976683085627_4424601559455760384_n.jpg 44792275_10160976683165627_8611099941726584832_n.jpg 43654975_10160976683260627_496778092371509248_n.jpg 44877152_1984684288237302_7847321956108992512_n.jpg And finally HMS Queen Elizabeth meets the Cunarder MV Queen Mary 2.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
It is not unusual, that aircraft don‘t fit into the hangar. Example: A-3 on Essex-Class.

Intrepid.. I honestly don't remember any A-3 spotted in the hangar deck aboard USS Hancock. Butt I'm sure they could have fit. The tail folded down. I know they fit aboard USS Midway. Midway and Hancock hangar deck height was identical at 17 1/2 feet (5.3m)

The photo below is a photo of an A-3 on the flight deck of
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being readied for transport back to the US for final disposal. Note the folded tail.

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04.30.2009...Sailors assigned to the port at Naval Station Rota work with crew members of the amphibious assault ship USS Wasp (LHD 1) to embark the last Navy EA-3B (A-3) Skywarrior from Naval Station Rota for delivery to Naval Station Norfolk. The aircraft will become part of the USS Alabama Memorial Park Museum in Mobile, Ala.
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Equipment was omitted from the RAN ships, but installing it would not require any major structural alterations. The bulk heads are all the same, the usage of those compartments is different. If as the RAN said themselves, they couldn't afford the extra cost of redesigning the bow to omit the ski jump, why would you think they could afford a much more radical redesign of the interior compartments and layout to preclude Fixed wing aircraft? Those compartments originally intended to house support facilities for jets were simply reallocated to other purposes. They can be reallocated again. The idea that these ships were altered so as never to be able to operate the F-35B is a story put out by the RAN to avoid opposition from the RAAF to the ships.

I agree they aren't ideal for operating Lightnings despite being designed for the job. My main opposition to them would be they have far too small a flight deck for their size. For a 27,000tonne ship they offer hardly any more deck space than the 12,000tonne Thai carrier Chakri Narubet, The Spanish designers can hardly claim they weren't intended to be carriers because they absolutely were! It was an integral part of the design brief and they could have done a much better job in the first place.View attachment 49399 View attachment 49400 RTN Chakri Narubet, Half the size of the RAN LHDs, same size flight deck and hangar.View attachment 49401 Now if they'd done this from the start, they'd have much more useful ships all round.View attachment 49402 But as they are, they still pack a lot of untapped potential.

Genius..pure genius! 100% truth! OUTSTANDING post!
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Intrepid

Major
Intrepid.. I honestly don't remember any A-3 spotted in the hangar deck aboard USS Hancock. Butt I'm sure they could have fit. The tail folded down. I know they fit aboard USS Midway. Midway and Hancock hangar deck height was identical at 17 1/2 feet (5.3m)
I have read it in several books. The reason given was the height of the hangar. I do not know if it's true.

Loaded weight is something like 70,000 lbs. After modernization the centerline elevator and the port elevator had a capacity of 46,000 lbs each, the stbd. elevator of 57,000 lbs. May be, this was the real reason: it was to complicate to handle (defuelling etc.)?
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
I have read it in several books. The reason given was the height of the hangar. I do not know if it's true.

Loaded weight is something like 70,000 lbs. After modernization the centerline elevator and the port elevator had a capacity of 46,000 lbs each, the stbd. elevator of 57,000 lbs. May be, this was the real reason: it was to complicate to handle (defuelling etc.)?
LOADED weight is 70,000lbs. But aircraft do not ride the elevators in loaded condition. Normally they are fuelled/defueled and armed/disarmed on the flight deck, for safety reasons. You don't want an aircraft going bang in an enclosed space like the Hangar deck, the damage will be far worse than on the flight deck. Empty weight of the A-3 was 39,409 lb (17,876 kg), so it could happily ride the elevators of an Essex after modernisation (SCB-27A/C SCB-125).2jc5xsg.jpg
 
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