AEGIS and AEGIS Like escort combatants of the World

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The more small AEGIS Like ships, Saar V corvettes, Israel, modernized in 2013 with SAM Barak-8 and new AESA radars.
Originaly Saar V have 64 Barak 1, the Barak 2 is more big and according reports but difficult for to be sure all Barak 1 have were replaced then i presume have now 32 Barak 8.

This is probably the smallest vessel in the world (standard displacement of 1,100 tons) to be fitted with an AEGIS-like radar system.
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Have a helo but not armed and don' t have guns.

kQQe1z9.jpg
 

aksha

Captain
The more small AEGIS Like ships, Saar V corvettes, Israel, modernized in 2013 with SAM Barak-8 and new AESA radars.
Originaly Saar V have 64 Barak 1, the Barak 2 is more big and according reports but difficult for to be sure all Barak 1 have were replaced then i presume have now 32 Barak 8.


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Have a helo but not armed and don' t have guns.

kQQe1z9.jpg


nope,barak 8's are not yet fitted out on the saar's because india delivered the dual pulse motor system only very recently.

just 1 of the SAAR's have been equipped with AESA and that too not BARAK 8.THE NEWS released in 2013 THAT BARAK 8 WAS FITTED ON THE SAAR's WAS A BLATANT LIE.


READ THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE VERY CAREFULLY
Israel, India Start To Equip Sea Forces With Barak-8 Defenses
TEL AVIV AND NEW DELHI — Israeli and Indian navies are poised to equip their warships with advanced Barak-8 anti-missile and air defense systems following last week’s long-awaited test, capping nearly eight years of cooperative development.

Led by state-owned Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), the vertically launched intercepting system has a 70-kilometer range and provides persistent 360-degree coverage against saturation attacks by sea-skimming missiles and a spectrum of air-breathing threats.

IAI executives said sea-based versions are now ready for full-rate production for both navies, which are expected to declare initial operational capability in a number of months.

In parallel, an IAI-led team is readying a ground-based version for the Indian Air Force, with projected deployment to begin next year and extend through 2017.

Defense officials and Navy officers from both countries hailed the successful Nov. 10 intercept test as validation of all system elements and a testament to their strategic ties.

An Indian Navy official noted that the program had run nearly four years behind schedule, primarily due to problems with the DRDO-developed rocket motor, “which affected the range and operational capability to engage sonic targets.”

The Barak-8 system had been slated for delivery by 2011 under a 2006 government-to-government contract, Indian officials said.

Boaz Levy, executive vice president and general manager of IAI’s Systems, Missiles and Space Group, told Israel-based reporters that engine-related problems have been resolved and that all elements of sea- and ground-based variants are validated and ready for serial production.

“It was a perfect interception. Just beautiful,” Levy said of the Nov. 10 test against an air-breathing target simulating advanced maneuvering capabilities of fighter bombers.

Alluding to developmental challenges and schedule glitches, Rear Adm. Ophir Shoham, director of Israel’s Defense Research and Development Directorate (DR&DD), said the Barak-8 project showcased “constructive cooperation between the Indian DRDO [Defence Research and Development Organization] and the Israeli DR&DD and the armed forces of both nations.

“Together, they have pushed forward this important program, overcoming technological challenges and earning achievements along the way,” he said.

Similarly, Avinash Chander, DRDO chief and scientific adviser to India’s minister of defense, hailed the test as “an important milestone” in bilateral cooperation.

Chander led a delegation of Defence Ministry officials, scientists and Navy officers participating with Israeli counterparts in the milestone test. Last week’s success transitions the program into another series of operational tests as flagship partners equip and field sea-based defenses.

Sources in New Delhi said the Indian Navy plans to begin equipping the Barak-8 long-range surface-to-air missile defense system on its stealth warships, under construction at state-owned Mazagon Docks.

An Indian DRDO official said last week’s test validated the system’s ability to perform maneuvers. He said the intercepting system will be tested in India before the project is completed.

In Israel, the Navy plans to equip its three Sa’ar-5 corvettes with the system. One of the Sa’ar-5s has already been outfitted with the active electronically scanned array radar system developed by IAI’s Elta Systems subsidiary for the Barak-8 program. The radar consists of four large panels positioned at both ends of the ship for persistent, all-weather, 360-degree coverage.

Under Israel’s operational concept, individual ships are capable of operating independently or as a battle group, where smaller vessels are slaved to the Barak-8-equipped command ship.

“The C4I system is unprecedented in its sophistication,” Levy said. “All ships in the group see the entire picture.”

IAI data released shortly after last week’s test said the system uses an advanced broadband communication network to coordinate between the missile and batteries.

“The system deals with short-, medium- and long-range threats, where its interconnectivity among the various ships in the naval task force enables it to be a multilayer air and missile defense system of systems,” according to IAI.

An Indian DRDO official said dozens of DRDO scientists have been stationed in Israel for the duration of the project.

An IAI executive said IAI and its team of subcontractors are already supplying the system “to a number of customers” whom he declined to identify beyond flagship users in Tel Aviv and New Delhi. ■
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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
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450km was the often cited range for 346, I think commonly sourced from the original wikipedia article which seemed to have been written by someone with knowledge even though it lacked "credible" references.

I think his estimate for 346A is just scaling up the range as a relation of array area/size. Of course, it's not a fool proof estimate and for all we know they could've changed the type of TR modules or better software may have improved performance to a bigger degree.

Interesting get your feeling but you have better number ?
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
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Interesting get your feeling but you have better number ?

No, I agree with the estimate you put up, assuming the original 450km number is accurate. And chances are it is accurate; 346 is a slightly bigger S band AESA than SAMPSON, which has an often listed 400km range.

Based off that, scaling its range upwards the same degree as the array face for 346A is reasonable. I suggested it myself over on CDF a while back.

I'm just a little reserved if we can scale it up as simply as that, and other factors such as improved software, maybe changing from GaA to GaN type TR modules would have any additional influence on performance.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
AEGIS or AEGIS Like ships :

USA : 84
22 CG Ticonderoga, 1983
62 Burke : 28 Burke + 34 Austin with hangar, 1990

Europe : 30
2 Forbin, 2010? FRA
2 Andrea Doria, 2010, IT
6 Daring, 2009, UK
3 Sachsen, 2004, GER
5 Nansen, 2006, NOR
5 De Bazan, 2002, SP
4 De Zeven Provincien, 2002, NL
3 Iver Huitfeldt, 2011, DN

Asia : 20
5 Luyang II, 2004, CH
1 Luyang III, 2014, CH
4 Kongo, 1993, JAP
2 Atago, 2007, JAP
4 Akizuki, JAP
3 KDX-III, SK
1 Kolkata, 2014, IN

Middle-East : 3
3 Saar V, 1995 AEGIS Like since 2013

Soon 2 new classes : Russian FFG Gorshkov and Australian DDG Hobbart.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
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I'd look to add Formidable and 054A as well, for RSN and PLAN respectively. I'd also consider Talwar and Shivalik for IN, but unfortunately they use arm launchers rather than VLS which I think disqualifies them.
The various FREMM variants should also deserve a spot imo.

KDX-II might also be worth mentioning on the list, but I don't think its radar is quite powerful enough to compare with the likes of herkales and sea eagle, let alone SPY-1, SAMPSON and 346/A.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I'd look to add Formidable and 054A as well, for RSN and PLAN respectively. I'd also consider Talwar and Shivalik for IN, but unfortunately they use arm launchers rather than VLS which I think disqualifies them.
The various FREMM variants should also deserve a spot imo.

KDX-II might also be worth mentioning on the list, but I don't think its radar is quite powerful enough to compare with the likes of herkales and sea eagle, let alone SPY-1, SAMPSON and 346/A.
FREMM will be on my site.

Type 054A, Formidable, KDX-II will not.

They do have VLS and are multi-role, but I personally do not view their battle management and/or radar as necessarily strong enough to be up to an AEGIS-like standard. The Type 052C/D, the KDX-III, FREMM, and the AEGIS-like GFFGs discussed do IMHO.

Anyhow,. that's how I am interpreting it for my site.
 

Blitzo

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Pictures of Formidable's CIC show it to be quite modern and inline with that of other aegis type ships.
054As CIC and hardware (and software too, based off pictures) is based off the same as that of 052B/C. This article by gabe Collins describes 054A as a mini aegis, which I believe is an apt term
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If anything I think their radars might be the weakest point, their battle management should be their strong point. Much have been made of Formidable's role in singapore's network centric doctrine, and we've heard of 054As commanding sovremennys as well.
The only thing going against them is their relatively small displacement, but size shouldnt really be a discriminator here. However, I think that their small size gives the impression that they have less capable BMSs despite ticking every other box for qualifying as an aegis type ship.

I agree KDX-II may not qualify as aegis type, but I think it is due to its less capable radar. We don't know what it's battle management is like, but I suspect it is quite modern.

I'd also include the RAN's upgraded ANZACs with the CEAFAR radar as aegis-type as well.

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Btw the Aquitane FREMM variant uses the same herkales radar as the formidable.

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Also, maybe it is worth stratifying aegis type ships in terms of displacement, because larger ships will naturally have more power for larger radars, more VLS, more CIC consoles, more data processing and data linking capacity, etc. I propose aegis type frigates (displacement from 2000-6000 tons), aegis type destroyers (6000-9000 tons) and aegis type cruisers (9000 tons and beyond).
This way we can acknowledge that all those ships have capabilities that on paper make them all "aegis," but gives them differing degrees of capability.

(Of course I'm not saying you should modify your site or anything; my suggestion is purely for discussion's sake)
 
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Jeff Head

General
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Btw the Aquitane FREMM variant uses the same herkales radar as the formidable.

This way we can acknowledge that all those ships have capabilities that on paper make them all "aegis," but gives them differing degrees of capability.

(Of course I'm not saying you should modify your site or anything; my suggestion is purely for discussion's sake)
We'll just end up repeating ther same arguements back and forth.

I do believe that the Formidable, the Type 054A and the KDX-II are all excellent multi-role vessels. I do not believe that their battle manamgement capabilities and/or radars are up to what I consider to be AEGIS-like capabilities.

This does not mean that they are not good...it just means I set a higher threshold on those two qualities I mentioned, either individually or in conceert with one another, depending on the vessel.
 

Brumby

Major
I do believe that the Formidable, the Type 054A and the KDX-II are all excellent multi-role vessels. I do not believe that their battle manamgement capabilities and/or radars are up to what I consider to be AEGIS-like capabilities.
Jeff,
I agree the heart of the Aegis system is in the battle management capabilities. There is very little information out there on this capability. Would you be able to outline some of the main ones?
 
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