2025 Israel - Iranian conflict

FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
TPenglake said:
The Rafale is still a one of the world's premiere 4th gen fighter jets, their performance shouldn't be based on the screw ups of poorly trained Indian pilots.
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Says France? Rafale has a tiny nose cone and relatively weak engines for electrical generation. Based on the record of events, Indian pilots flew a typical strike sortie and yet couldn't even detect the missiles launched at them. Indian pilots didn't get into a dogfight and get shot down due to being unable to fly the plane, they got shot down without even seeing the Pakistani jets. French pilots in the seat would've suffered the same fate. A white face doesn't make your radar bigger.
TPenglake said:
And for what its worth, France maintained a decades long operation in Mali with a total of 53 KIA, Wagner in that one ambush last year lost 80 KIA in a single day.
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Mali's government was pro-France and official French troops were in Mali at the invitation of the Malian government in an insurgency, not really comparable.
TPenglake said:
The point is talking of the toll inflicted upon Ukrainians in the context of the global East and West struggle is moot, since Ukraine before the war was a corrupt wasteland with a lower per capita GDP than Iraq.
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So it wouldn't matter at all if India was armed to the teeth with Rafales (oops better pick a non-shit plane), HIMARS, M1A2s, etc and attacked China? After all their GDP per capita would still be lower than Iraq.
TPenglake said:
Russia, in supposedly wiping out half of the country's male population, has been isolated from many of the world's major economies outside of China and India, and lost vast quantities of its stockpiled weaponry and thousands of experienced troops. Meanwhile, most of Western Europe outside of some economic fallout, remains unaffected, so I don't think its an achievement worth boasting of.
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Yet the Russian economy is growing faster now than pre-war. In fact, it needed this kick in the ass to get away from western dependence. It also proved that western sanctions have no teeth as Russia has quantitatively not suffered decline in quality of life due to them.

Relative to prewar, as of today:

Life expectancy: up.
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Energy production: up.
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Retail sales: up.
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TPenglake said:
More to the topic at hand, which is China and its allies, many here can in fact claim that the US still has many advanced nation on its side. Whereas if this was WW1, China would essentially be a Germany saddled with two Austrias.
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Iran isn't a Chinese ally. China isn't saddled by it at all. Doesn't really matter what happens to Iran. Russia is a different story - but they're also a different story.
 
T

tamsen_ikard

Senior Member
Registered Member
doggydogdo said:
Is this all Israel's got? This attack didn't destroy Iranian chain of command, their decapitation strike failed. The US didn't even back them up this time so it's also politically a loss for Israel. All they achieved is a few notable kills and damaged civilian infrastructure. If Iran targets Israel factories, oil storage and power facilities Israeli economy will collapse.

Why do some of you guys suddenly turn super Anti-Iran when Iran gets attacked by Israel? They are literally the victims of Israeli aggression. Do you guys have no honor at all?
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People dislike Iran's incompetence, they are frustrated and sad. Look at the Houthis, what they have been doing to Israel and US with their limited resources. Compared to that Iran has been completely exposed and humiliated.

If Air defense is this bad then they should have given up everything and bought good air defense from Russia and China. They should have eaten grass to get good air defense. But sadly they did not. And now they are suffering.
 
D

delfer

New Member
Registered Member
doggydogdo said:
Is this all Israel's got? This attack didn't destroy Iranian chain of command, their decapitation strike failed. The US didn't even back them up this time so it's also politically a loss for Israel. All they achieved is a few notable kills and damaged civilian infrastructure. If Iran targets Israel factories, oil storage and power facilities Israeli economy will collapse.

Why do some of you guys suddenly turn super Anti-Iran when Iran gets attacked by Israel? They are literally the victims of Israeli aggression. Do you guys have no honor at all?
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It’s not that we become anti-Iran, it’s just that it’s frustrating to see Iran get hit multiple times, assassinations, etc, and respond in limited ways with clear hesitance. They need to finally stand up to Israel. Enough is enough, but it seems like they just allow themselves to get punched.

You’re right, this attack wasn’t THAT insanely huge or anything, but it was bigger than the previous ones, and it’s going to start causing problems now because the Israelis will be emboldened by it, and keep pushing the envelope. Believe me, I hope Iran responds accordingly, but some of us have just lost hope.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
TPenglake said:
Which is why cynically, as pathetic as Iran has shown to be they can still make themselves useful by bogging the US and Israel down Afghanistan style.
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nah they can't even do that. Afghanistan had the most important weapon of all: Morale.

you can only bog someone down if you're willing to fight in the mud. Many Iranians think of themselves as honorary westerners held back by the government.

If Chinese thought they were honorary Japanese being held back by the ROC, China would've lost WW2.
 
B

Botnet

Junior Member
Registered Member
FairAndUnbiased said:
Russia has already critically wounded (1.5M), displaced (1.3M) or captured (2.9M) half of the entire working age male Ukrainian population (5.7M out of 11.1M) based on western reports, as of last year.
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Thats not what the 1.5 million means. Its referring to the number of people that have some sort of natural disability making them unfit for service not people who were already mobilized but are critically wounded. Because the alternative is that Ukraine has suffered 1.5 million critically wounded alone and millions of casualties in total. Because that’s frankly ridiculous. The US military estimate as of January is 400k.
FairAndUnbiased said:
Russia has lost a negligible % of its working age male population in comparison.

This is demographically one of the most brutal wars in history.

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Russia recently drove a freezer truck filled with 1k+ Ukrainian bodies up to the border, asking Ukraine to pick up its dead. Ukraine didn't. And Ukraine also couldn't show an equivalent casualty infliction, neither by total nor proportional body count. If it could, it would.

It is just that this level of casualties would've made anyone else surrender, even the Nazi Germans, but west worship is a hell of a drug. All that means though is that by the time Ukraine surrenders, it'd be demographically ruined.
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Sorry but I’m tired of people giving Russia and Iran so much slack and credit when they dont deserve any of it. They’re freeloaders pure and simple, neither will be able to pull their own weight in a conflict with the west. Russia is supposedly the “second best army” in the world. Is this what standard we hold them to? That they beat Ukraine into a mutual demographic collapse? Seriously? Sure its obviously not as bad as Ukraine’s but they too were already suffering from a declining working age population and TFR. Add onto that a war with hundreds of thousands of casualties and mass brain drain? And they’re still only in possible of like a fourth of the country? If you told me this was the outcome 3 years on I’d be incredulous. There’s literally no reason to laud this as any sort of success. The bar should not be this low. The fact that 3 years in we’re talking about Russia losing a dozen strategic bombers deep in their own territory. That you have Ukrainian drones striking Moscow itself. We need to face the fact that a supposed military superpower, given 3 years to conquer Ukraine, has managed to get itself mired down to a snails pace, and only has a fourth of the country occupied to show for it. Would you trust Russia to handle itself in a direct kinetic conflict with Europe? I sure as hell would not. And I sure as hell would not trust them in a fight with America. At the end of the day, China stands alone. Our allies have shown us no lack of their true competency. We need to prepare to fight the West by ourselves with no aid and win.
 
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