09V/09VI (095/096) Nuclear Submarine Thread

tphuang

tphuang

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@BoraTas and I recorded an episode on Type 09V just this afternoon and you can find it here.

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We did raise one point that I think is worth watching out for, which is when will Type 09VI come out and what it will look like. 09VI will be the first non-Western SSBN that can get through USN containment and get close to intended target to fire off ballistic missile vs firing from 10000 km away. As such, it will be a really big deal whenever it gets produced. And we will see if it's a clean sheet like Columbia class with 13m+ beam.

Other thing that Bora raised is that the length to beam ratio of Type 09V as we see it now is quite ideal in terms of hydrodynamics (between 8 and 9 to 1) whereas the block 4 Virginia class is like 14:1 iirc, which is not ideal at all.
 
Blitzo

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tphuang said:
@BoraTas and I recorded an episode on Type 09V just this afternoon and you can find it here.

Other thing that Bora raised is that the length to beam ratio of Type 09V as we see it now is quite ideal in terms of hydrodynamics (between 8 and 9 to 1) whereas the block 4 Virginia class is like 14:1 iirc, which is not ideal at all.
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It's Block 5 Virginia (not 4) which has the 14:1 ratio (i.e.: much greater length due to addition of the VPM hull plug in section).

I remember some 4-5 years ago recalling that the hydrodynamic profile of 09V will be more akin to baseline Seawolf specifically for the purposes of higher end underwater performance, with its VLS complement being only "moderate" rather than too extensive like Block V VA or Yasen.

Part of the rationale is because the bigger gap in PLAN SSN capability was the ability to do higher end underwater warfare (against other submarines, as long distance escort for surface taskforces, and carrying out independent long distance hunter killer missions in general), whereas they had quite an extensive and still increasing anti-surface capability for the western pacific that could be fulfilled with other platforms/domains.


Still, possessing a degree of anti-surface capability for the baseline 09V makes sense, but for the initial boats it probably isn't the priority. We will see if they choose to pursue a variant of 09V (or indeed, a variant of 09VI) that is more "SSGN" oriented, as it goes without saying that once they are more comfortable with having a higher end SSN capability at scale, it would make sense to leverage the same platform type for enabling more comprehensive long distance conventional anti surface strike missions beyond the western pacific.
 
mister unknown

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tphuang said:
@BoraTas and I recorded an episode on Type 09V just this afternoon and you can find it here.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

We did raise one point that I think is worth watching out for, which is when will Type 09VI come out and what it will look like. 09VI will be the first non-Western SSBN that can get through USN containment and get close to intended target to fire off ballistic missile vs firing from 10000 km away. As such, it will be a really big deal whenever it gets produced. And we will see if it's a clean sheet like Columbia class with 13m+ beam.

Other thing that Bora raised is that the length to beam ratio of Type 09V as we see it now is quite ideal in terms of hydrodynamics (between 8 and 9 to 1) whereas the block 4 Virginia class is like 14:1 iirc, which is not ideal at all.
Click to expand...

A couple of thoughts:

If the PLA's nuclear doctrine remains that of maintaining a credible, minimal deterrence, would its SSBNs need to get closer than 10k km, especially with ever improving SLBMs?

Granted having a highly stealthy SSBN means that has more options to hide in larger areas of the world's oceans, & that might mean closer to the target by default.

Another exciting thought is that if the 09VI ends up comparable in size to the Columbia, I wonder whether the PLAN could produce a SSGN variant that carries the CJ-1000 cruise missile? That would be a pretty potent combo, if feasible.
 
Tomboy

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mister unknown said:
Another exciting thought is that if the 09VI ends up comparable in size to the Columbia, I wonder whether the PLAN could produce a SSGN variant that carries the CJ-1000 cruise missile? That would be a pretty potent combo, if feasible.
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Probably not for CJ-1000 but it is possible for a SSGN variant of the 09VI with UVLS or future 900mm VLS in place of JL-4 launch tubes. Given that JL-4 is likely the largest SLBM given rumors, it is possible for 4 or 5 VLS in place of a tube for a total of 64-80 VLS.
 
Blitzo

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A.Man said:
Oh, ?

View attachment 169683

View attachment 169684
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Can you stop vague posting basic pictures without having any responsibility or commentary for what you are actually contributing? This has been happening for years now since you first joined the forum.
Try to take some pride and value in what you are contributing and to take some effort in explaining why you think what you're posting is valuable.

In this case, the first picture is made by a fanboy (who is albeit a good artist) that has made past diagrams of PLA ships and aircraft thta are wishcasting at best, and whose rendition of the 09V is not wholly unreasonable but ultimately still as speculative as any other out there (arguably too generous with the VLS count).

The second image is unrelated to 09V, and is the 032 test submarine SSK.

So what does "Oh?" even mean here??
 
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