055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

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Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
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Deino, do you mean this question?
.

No. I added several post sin the conversation "urgent ... time for action" and in the moderator's corner with the urgent request for a reply due to the mess that was going on in certain thread.

No answer, webby does not reply - even via e-mail - and I must admit I'm considering leaving SDF and resign as a moderator if not something happens soon ... and soon means quite very soon !

I have enough ...

Deino
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
No. I added several post sin the conversation "urgent ... time for action" and in the moderator's corner with the urgent request for a reply due to the mess that was going on in certain thread.

No answer, webby does not reply - even via e-mail - and I must admit I'm considering leaving SDF and resign as a moderator if not something happens soon ... and soon means quite very soon !

I have enough ...

Deino

I think with Jeff's health, TP's absence etc. we really need new good quality mods to help fill in the gap and steer this ship back on course.

This forum is too substantial for one or two individuals to moderate. Many folks look at this forum. Even though it may 'appear' small since contributors are not many but the audience are worldwide including many NGOs and even state actors.
 

jobjed

Captain
I think with Jeff's health, TP's absence etc. we really need new good quality mods to help fill in the gap and steer this ship back on course.

This forum is too substantial for one or two individuals to moderate. Many folks look at this forum. Even though it may 'appear' small since contributors are not many but the audience are worldwide including many NGOs and even state actors.
Look in the mirror for a fitting candidate. :)
 
... state actors.
1280px-National_Security_Agency_headquarters%2C_Fort_Meade%2C_Maryland.jpg


5017007-7670381831-langl.jpg
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
I suppose the 55 is a destroyer, as opposed to an independently operating cruiser, it is meant to operate in a flotilla or a task force...
The distinction between the two is almost gone in modern navy. Even the boundary between Frigate and Destroyer is blurred as many Frigate is growing their tonnage.

the number of cells per ship is more of a ratio than some total sum available...

112 is really the weapons to sensors ratio, perhaps 128 to 1 was considered too small for the sensor side
Agreed.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
The distinction between the two is almost gone in modern navy. Even the boundary between Frigate and Destroyer is blurred as many Frigate is growing their tonnage.


Agreed.

Agreed that the distinction between Destroyer and Cruiser is disappearing, as they're using similar high-performance sensors and weapons fits, so there shouldn't be a huge cost difference as the weapons and electronics are way more expensive than the ship+hull.

But the boundary between Frigate and Destroyer remains, because it isn't about tonnage. In a Frigate, the majority of the cost is comprised of the ship+hull, rather than the weapons and electronics.

Eg. $300M Type-54A versus $800M? Type-52/55, or $400M LCS versus $1800M Arleigh Burke.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Agreed that the distinction between Destroyer and Cruiser is disappearing, as they're using similar high-performance sensors and weapons fits, so there shouldn't be a huge cost difference.

But the boundary between Frigate and Destroyer remains, because it isn't about tonnage. In a Frigate, the majority of the cost is comprised of the ship+hull, rather than the weapons and electronics.

In comparison, for a destroyer/cruiser (eg. Burke, Zumwalt, Type-52D, Type-55), the weapons and electronics are way more expensive than the ship+hull.
Yes there is boundary, but it is gradually blurred since some navies such as Germany begins to call their big and advanced warships frigate.

When talking about that, I had Sachsen-class frigate in mind. Though it is officially a frigate, it is at least at the same level of many operational destroyers in terms of armament and sensors and tonnage or even better for its advanced electronics. I think name is just a choice of word for whatever reasons nowadays than the past such as the navy treaty after WWI to strictly class ships according to armor thickness, gun barrels and tonnage.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
When talking about that, I had Sachsen-class frigate in mind. Though it is officially a frigate, but it is at least at the same level of many operational destroyers in terms of armament and sensors and tonnage or even better for its advanced electronics. I think name is just a choice of word for whatever reasons nowadays then the past such as the after WWI the treaty of navy to strictly class ships according to armor thickness, gun barrels and tonnage.

The Sachsen air defence frigate is actually heavier than the Lutjens air defence destroyer it replaced.

Hence I think the naming conventions for ships really should follow their designed purpose, rather than the size of hull which is used.

Unlike the old days, weight is no longer an accurate reflection of capability, which now resides in the electronics and weapons fit.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
Hence I think the naming conventions for ships really should follow their designed purpose, rather than the size of hull which is used.
Nobody follows such a convention. Nowadays frigates, destroyers, and cruisers are designated as such for political rather than military reasons.
 

Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
Recall that in the US navy, the modern distinction between cruiser and destroyer is totally arbitrary.

Between 1960-1975, all new modern guided missile fleet defense surface units in the United States Navy were called Frigates, where as guided missile fleet defense units converted from WWII era gun cruisers were still called cruisers.

ALthough the Soviets also called all their new guided missile fleet defense surface units by a single name (large anti-submarine ship), the US Navy prefer to refer to larger new soviet surface combants as cruisers.

By 1975, most of USN’s converted WWII era cruisers had retired, and americam newspapers began to make hay over the fact that by USN’s own nomenclature, the Soviets still had lots of cruisers where as the USN only had frigates (this simply because the USN chose to call new soviet guided missile units as cruisers instead of frigates like the USN had hitherto called its own new guided missile units), Frigates didn’t sound nearly as potent as cruisers. So there was the talks of a “cruiser gap” amongst the ill informed defense hawks.

Well, the Cruiser gap is purely the artifact of the naming game, and can be made to vanish by renaming somethings. This is exactly what the USN did. In 1975 the USN made the cruiser gap instantly vanish by restyling the larger frigates in the US fleet as cruisers, including all of the new nuclear power frigates.

When we speak of the Ticonderoga class as cruisers, and wonder what made these ships cruisers where as the Arleigh Burke class only merited the name destroyers, we should remember the answer is absolutely nothing fundamental, and note the Ticonderoga class were indeed originally designed as destroyers.

When the Ticonderoga class was first conceived, they were intended to be the anti-Air counterpart to the Spruance class anti-submarine destroyer. In fact, they share exactly the same hull and engineering plant, and very similar superstructure layout, as the Spruance class destroyer, and are nothing more than an anti-air development of the Spruance class.

The reason why they became called cruisers is simply this. When Ticonderoga class guided missile DESTROYERS were being planned, the USN intended to also build a class of much larger, 16,000 ton, nuclear powered aegis vessels to be called Strike cruisers. When these were cut due to post-Vietnam defense spending cuts, the USN tried to add Aegis to the Virginia class nuclear power cruisers. Finally, when that too got cut, the USN found itself without any new cruisers in it fleet plans.

So the fear of another “Cruiser gap” arose. The fear became acute when the Soviets deployed the giant Kirov class “battlecruisers”. So the US navy decided to head off the threat of another “Cruiser gap” by the simple expedient of restyling the Ticonderoga class guided missile destroyer into Ticonderoga class guided missile CRUISERS.

So this is the reason why the Ticonderoga class are called cruisers. Not because it has 128 missile tubes, but because the USN had to be seen building “cruisers” when the Soviets are said to be building “cruisers”.
 
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