055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

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kurutoga

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this is interesting:
DHxqRfWXcAMTSKd.jpg

comes from the tweet
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also mentioning the already translated article
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"Some of the sensors on the destroyer Type 055 maybe find the explanation in this image."

What doe that mean? 055 looks very different than this.
 

Insignius

Junior Member
The Su-35, btw, also has L-band radars on the edge of its wings.

I do wonder if Shenyang or Chengdu would adapt something similiar as well for the J-20 and J-11/J-16 series. This would give every Chinese plane a certain counter-stealth capability.
 

Insignius

Junior Member
"Some of the sensors on the destroyer Type 055 maybe find the explanation in this image."

What doe that mean? 055 looks very different than this.

What he meant are the bar-shaped arrays ontop of the bridge. Since we know from this image that L-band radars might also be bar-shaped, these mystery arrays on the 055 (and 052Ds) might not be IFF as previously thought, but L-band radars.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
There are two types of bar-shaped arrays on top of the 055's bridge. One is certainly the IFF system. The other type is the mystery bar, which I have been speculating to be an L-band radar. Which one is which is also a mystery, but the smaller-sized bar is about the same size as the IFF array on the 052D.
 

kurutoga

Junior Member
Registered Member
What he meant are the bar-shaped arrays ontop of the bridge. Since we know from this image that L-band radars might also be bar-shaped, these mystery arrays on the 055 (and 052Ds) might not be IFF as previously thought, but L-band radars.

I see, if the larger bars (size seems to be abotu 4x1m) are L-band radar maybe it contains 4-12 elements each. With four bars that is 16-48 in total
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
IFF, electronic warfare, and anti-stealth early warning.

That claim is a personal opinion. What was said about it is that they are for IFF and maybe, on the variant used on Su57, for electronic warfare. There is no proof they are actual radars. In the early days when they were talked about on Su-35 people in the forums assumed they were radars, but years later talk of that abated when IFF purpose was claimed by the producer. None of that is a diss on russians, i am very sure they can produce an actual radar and place it in the wing slats. If there isn't a radar there, it's probably a matter of cost/benefit decision and expected enemies/missions. (for example, flying away from home defenses with su-57 and into enemy airspace filled with F-35 is probably not a requirement or expected mission for Su-57) There is no serious claim out there about L band radar on Su-57 but there is one of L band IFF array in the wings.

Anyway, all this is off topic.

Gist of my comment was that, even though size of L arrays shown on the drawing may be barely enough for detection (and I guess ranging), it's not very useful for much more than that. (or as useful as on other L band radars such as smart-l and fps117) That being said, with such large S band arrays, perhaps detection by those L band arrays IS enough. Who's to know.

Compared to Smart-L, vertical aperture is roughly 8 times worse. Compared to fps117 it is 14 times worse. Horizontal aperture seems better off at first, "just" 20% worse than fps117 and half of that of Smart-L... But those two radars rotate horizontally when they scan. Which means that our hypothetical L band array, not rotating and using electronic beamforming to scan, has aperature that is 3.4 times smaller when scanning at 90 degrees off main axis compared to smart-l, and two times smaller than that of fps117 at same angle.

none of this is to belittle the idea of such a "small" radar array. my comments here are purely here for trying to figure out the role of the radar and its limitations. What it can do well, and what it may have problems with.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
That claim is a personal opinion. What was said about it is that they are for IFF and maybe, on the variant used on Su57, for electronic warfare. There is no proof they are actual radars. In the early days when they were talked about on Su-35 people in the forums assumed they were radars, but years later talk of that abated when IFF purpose was claimed by the producer. None of that is a diss on russians, i am very sure they can produce an actual radar and place it in the wing slats. If there isn't a radar there, it's probably a matter of cost/benefit decision and expected enemies/missions. (for example, flying away from home defenses with su-57 and into enemy airspace filled with F-35 is probably not a requirement or expected mission for Su-57) There is no serious claim out there about L band radar on Su-57 but there is one of L band IFF array in the wings.

Anyway, all this is off topic.

Gist of my comment was that, even though size of L arrays shown on the drawing may be barely enough for detection (and I guess ranging), it's not very useful for much more than that. (or as useful as on other L band radars such as smart-l and fps117) That being said, with such large S band arrays, perhaps detection by those L band arrays IS enough. Who's to know.

Compared to Smart-L, vertical aperture is roughly 8 times worse. Compared to fps117 it is 14 times worse. Horizontal aperture seems better off at first, "just" 20% worse than fps117 and half of that of Smart-L... But those two radars rotate horizontally when they scan. Which means that our hypothetical L band array, not rotating and using electronic beamforming to scan, has aperature that is 3.4 times smaller when scanning at 90 degrees off main axis compared to smart-l, and two times smaller than that of fps117 at same angle.

none of this is to belittle the idea of such a "small" radar array. my comments here are purely here for trying to figure out the role of the radar and its limitations. What it can do well, and what it may have problems with.
It's not just my personal opinion:

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(slightly less than halfway down the page)
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(by no less than Carlo Kopp)

When Kopp does an entire article on this exact L-band radar and says it can be used to detect stealth targets, I would say that his opinion trumps your opinion, to put it mildly. His article also addresses your claims about angular coverage in a narrow/small radar.
 
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