055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

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charles18

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..........
That said, I don't think China really needs such missile cruisers right now. Even the type 055 is arguably already too big, ....
I respectfully disagree. The PLA-navy needs more Type 055 ships and size is about right. It would not surprise me if the PLA-navy increases its production of Type 055 ships from an average of 2 per year to 4 per year. However if they started building 2 Aircraft carriers at the same time and produced an average of 1 every 2 years, now THAT would surprise me.

.... considering that the PLAN is still confined by their first island chain and their continent-based missile networks are capable of prosecuting attacks against enemy vessels at a far lower cost and at far greater force survivability than any combination of Chinese destroyers realistically could.
If the goal of the PLA-navy is to limit itself to within the "first island chain" of mainland China then you are absolutely right. However I think it is safe to say the PLA-navy has far greater ambitions then that. China already has the first island chain pretty "secured". Within 5 years it will be the 2nd island chain. Within 10 years it will be the 3rd island chain.
 

dasCKD

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If the goal of the PLA-navy is to limit itself to within the "first island chain" of mainland China then you are absolutely right. However I think it is safe to say the PLA-navy has far greater ambitions then that. China already has the first island chain pretty "secured". Within 5 years it will be the 2nd island chain. Within 10 years it will be the 3rd island chain.
Ultimately, I do think that the goal of the PLA in the near to medium-term future is to try to bring Taiwan beneath the PRC flag. One Taiwanese ports and land is open to PLA expansion, then the PLA would have far better access to the Pacific and far more reason to deploy fleets of hard-hitting anti-ship destroyers to the Pacific.

Prior to that, however, the focus of the PLA would probably still be on Taiwan and ensuring that Japanese and American forces can't stop China from securing the island militarily should such a possibility become a necessity. As the PLA's budget isn't infinite and, quite frankly, is still actually quite a small proportion of the GDP, I just don't think that a massive fleet of Type-055s are the best use of resources. The ballistic missile umbrella is excellent and probably needs more resources to continue developing, but there are areas where the PLA is REALLY lacking. The fleet of 5th generation aircraft like the J-20 and the FC-31, for example, are tiny in comparison to the kinds of unit volumes that America and Japan could field in a long war and the H-20 is still not operational as far as we know. Considering how vulnerable Chinese vessels still would be in the attack submarine-infested waters of the Pacific, the ability to secure air superiority way past Taiwan and to fly PLAAF ASW planes over the Pacific is kind of the very baseline of what is needed to ensure that the Type-055s can really operate as anything than a very expensive platform to mount a radar suite and missile systems.

It hurts me to say this because warships are literally my favorite weapon system. I still can't help but think that building out the Type 055 fleet way past what is needed to test out the hull form factor and develop competencies is just nor really what the PLA needs when their airforce is still comparatively so weak and when the continental PLARF are probably better suited for targetting American CSGs regardless. I think that 8 type-055s just aren't as good an investment as 100 J-20s/FC-31s.
 

Chilled_k6

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A hypothetical 055B with 12x large VLS (LVLS) and 64x UVLS would have advantages such as full communication capability with the rest of the fleet, a command post to act as coordinator for long range and space warfare, and large radars to light up orbital targets for ASAT and ABM if some of the LVLS were filled with ASAT missiles.
More interesting to me than mounting hypersonic missiles in UVLS since we do get relatively more news out about them, do we have any further news about HQ-19 or HQ-26 variants being integrated on Type 055? I imagine the PLAN would want those pretty soon to extend out the AD wall as a counter to Dark Eagle, if they haven't already
 
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AndrewS

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I think that 8 type-055s just aren't as good an investment as 100 J-20s/FC-31s.

My guess is that the trade-off for 8 Type-055 is more like 50 J-20, if you account for procurement and ongoing operating costs.

Given I expect 200-250 J-20s to be produced in the 2021-2026 plan, 8 Type-055 in the same time period looks reasonable.
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
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According to the latest study by the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments 1 Type 055 is roughly equal to 7 J-20 in procurement and lifetime costs. That’s 8 Type 055s for 56 J-20s.

Can you point out where in the report?

I only saw 6 J-20 = 1 Type-052D.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
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My mistake, sorry. It was 7 J-20s for the cost of 1 Type 052D, as stated on Page iii.

What is the relative cost of a Type 055 to Type 052D?

The procurement figures that have been mentioned previously are 6 billion RMB for a Type-055 and 3.5 billion RMB for a Type-052D.

Operating costs could be proportionately lower for the Type-055.

And operating costs are higher for fighter jets than for ships.
 
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