054B/new generation frigate

sunnymaxi

Colonel
Registered Member
Being 100 percent fair, 052D is a refreshed 20 year old design in terms of hull design and propulsion with the latest electronics/sensors and weaponry. 055 is cleansheet design but in terms of hull design and propulsion it still is relatively conservative for it's time with conventional COGAG and not IEPS etc.

The biggest problem with 054B is IMO with the conservative propulsion and hull design, not the weaponry and sensors. IEPS is still pretty new to China with the first navy vessel featuring it being the 076 and even that is still built with old turbine technology instead of the latest CGT-30 series which is still very new and unproven. AFAIK, China also lacks domestic large medium/low speed diesel engines, if I remember correctly the latest ones are only 6MW to 8MW max.
CGT-30 is now a mature GT as this machine is even exported to Russia also used in latest 052D. also they used it on civilian ship in 2024 for long distance sea trial. later on your confirmed this was CGT-40. i m quoting your post down below

View attachment 169961View attachment 169963
Does anyone know what ship can this possibly be? Likely 2 CGT-30 in generator config with 2 9MW diesel generators for IEP. Did a long distance sea trial in 2024.
CGT-30M in 052D.

Some more information on the switch to CGT-30M GTs on the newer 052D DDGs, by SOYO on Weibo.

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Comparison table between the power outputs and thermal efficiencies of CGT-25M, CGT-30M and LM2500+, made by SOYO:

Model
CGT-25M​
CGT-30M​
LM2500+​
Rated Max Power Output (ISO)
28.7 MW​
32-33.5 MW​
30.2 MW​
Rated Max Power Output (Naval GJB)
24.26 MW​
30 MW​
28.5 MW​
Rated Max Power Output (USN NSD)
20 MW​
27.5 MW​
26.63 MW​
Thermal Efficiency (ISO)
36%​
39.3%​
39%​
Power Output at 90% capacity (USN NSD)
18 MW​
24.75 MW​
24 MW​
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CSSC revealed 9MW diesel Engine in November, 2025.. i remember you had a very good discussion on marine propulsion thread with tphuang.

20CS27, a 9 MW V-type diesel engine.jpg

20CS27, a 9 MW V-type diesel engine.jpg

how could you forgot all these development since you were always the part of discussion.
 

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
They should just build 20 054B even if it is just a "transitional" design. Then build another 30+ whatever the new class looks like. This is how you build the world's largest navy when your shipbuilding industry prices are still affordable.

That's also how you risk block obsolescence, by poor planning.

It's not like their goal is to have the world's largest navy, rather the goal is to have a capable navy that is well balanced and able to achieve their nation's requirements.


Being 100 percent fair, 052D is a refreshed 20 year old design in terms of hull design and propulsion with the latest electronics/sensors and weaponry. 055 is cleansheet design but in terms of hull design and propulsion it still is relatively conservative for it's time with conventional COGAG and not IEPS etc.

On the one hand, that is true, but on the other hand it is somewhat ludicrous to suggest that a mature IEPS capability was ready for 055 considering construction of the lead hull of the class began in like 2014.
"Conservative" is in context of available technologies and subsystems, and in terms of propulsion 055 was certainly using available and ready prime movers and gearing configurations -- because as some other ship classes in the world have demonstrated, being overambitious or a bit risky with propulsion means you are at risk of sidelining your entire warship class if not careful.

The biggest problem with 054B is IMO with the conservative propulsion and hull design, not the weaponry and sensors. IEPS is still pretty new to China with the first navy vessel featuring it being the 076 and even that is still built with old turbine technology instead of the latest CGT-30 series which is still very new and unproven. AFAIK, China also lacks domestic large medium/low speed diesel engines, if I remember correctly the latest ones are only 6MW to 8MW max.

The external hullform of 054B is perfectly adequate. The question is more whether the internal compartments is able to be redesigned accommodate a more future proof propulsion train.
But as a CODAD frigate, 054B is fairly adequate and compares favourably to the likes of other contemporary CODAD frigates like Iver Huitfeldt, Type 31, FDI etc.


I think people should be somewhat appreciative that CGT25 has been mastered to begin with, and that they are in a position where they have a realistic near term/imminent pathway for CGT30 and CGT40 etc on naval ships.
There was a real possibility until the early 2010s that PLAN medium to large surface combatants might not have access to scaled, mature gas turbine production, and that they might have had to contend with steam turbine propulsion for a further 2 decades or so if various pieces had not fallen the way they did.
 

Tomboy

Captain
Registered Member
CGT-30 is now a mature GT as this machine is even exported to Russia also used in latest 052D. also they used it on civilian ship in 2024 for long distance sea trial. later on your confirmed this was CGT-40. i m quoting your post down below


CGT-30M in 052D.


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CSSC revealed 9MW diesel Engine in November, 2025.. i remember you had a very good discussion on marine propulsion thread with tphuang.

View attachment 174125

View attachment 174125

how could you forgot all these development since you were always the part of discussion.
If I remember correctly western manufacturers have up to 12MW class diesel engines in similar speed range and class. Also I mentioned 6-8MW, of which 9MW isn't exactly far from that range.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
If I remember correctly western manufacturers have up to 12MW class diesel engines in similar speed range and class. Also I mentioned 6-8MW, of which 9MW isn't exactly far from that range.

Do any naval ships use a 12MW diesel?

The largest seems to be the 4x 8.2MW CODAD arrangements on the Iver Huidfelt class and its derivatives
 

Tomboy

Captain
Registered Member
Do any naval ships use a 12MW diesel?

The largest seems to be the 4x 8.2MW CODAD arrangements on the Iver Huidfelt class and its derivatives
AFAIK, QE class carriers use two 12MW units along with two 8MW units for 40MW combined. Main utility for larger engine IMO would be for gensets for future large surface combatants or if PLAN still decides to stay all diesel for their next generation frigates, larger diesel sets could definitely help there.
 

Gloire_bb

Colonel
Registered Member
It's not like their goal is to have the world's largest navy, rather the goal is to have a capable navy that is well balanced and able to achieve their nation's requirements.
To be fair, it appears than Chinese goal is to build world's largest navy.
It just didn't get a flowery "two ocean navy announcement", and PLAN is still waiting to finish working on carrier branch.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
AFAIK, QE class carriers use two 12MW units along with two 8MW units for 40MW combined. Main utility for larger engine IMO would be for gensets for future large surface combatants or if PLAN still decides to stay all diesel for their next generation frigates, larger diesel sets could definitely help there.

The Type-075 uses four 12MW diesels?

If so, then the full range of naval diesel engines would be:

5MW on Type-055
7.3MW (46% larger than previous size) on Type-054B
9MW (23% larger than previous size)
12MW (33% larger than previous size) on Type-075

---

For Frigates, I think they will just keep using 4 diesels as they are lower cost and more fuel efficient than gas turbines. You only need more power if you want to keep up with a carrier group (which aren't many), and this shouldn't be the job of a low-cost Frigate built in large numbers.

So I expect the IEPS configuration (with 2*9MW Diesel and 2*36MW GT) will be for a Destroyer.
That 90MW is more power than on the Zumwalts or Burkes.

But 90MW is less than the total power on the current Type-055. However, if IEPS allows for the removal of the previous electricity redundancy (15MW? of 30MW diesel electricity generators), and also a 30% reduction in overall power, then 90MW would be enough.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
If I remember correctly western manufacturers have up to 12MW class diesel engines in similar speed range and class. Also I mentioned 6-8MW, of which 9MW isn't exactly far from that range.
You are precisely suggesting a disasterous design like Type-45 IEPS.

You seem to lack basic engineering knowledge. The core of design is to have power granularity which is to have multiple various sized engines combined. NOT a single beast to do all the job from 5% load at the port all the way up to 100% power in a dash. In case of auxilary power, having a single 12MW diesel is worst for a 4000 to 5000 tonne ship, a single 8MW is worse, 2 to 3 4MW is good.

That is how the British learnt from the hard way. Google this Rolls Royce report on the Type-45 faulty design. RR basically assigned the fault to the idea that RN adopted which is what you suggested. RN apparently agreed to the conclusion in their remedy.
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Being 100 percent fair, 052D is a refreshed 20 year old design in terms of hull design and propulsion with the latest electronics/sensors and weaponry. 055 is cleansheet design but in terms of hull design and propulsion it still is relatively conservative for it's time with conventional COGAG and not IEPS etc.

The biggest problem with 054B is IMO with the conservative propulsion and hull design, not the weaponry and sensors. IEPS is still pretty new to China with the first navy vessel featuring it being the 076 and even that is still built with old turbine technology instead of the latest CGT-30 series which is still very new and unproven. AFAIK, China also lacks domestic large medium/low speed diesel engines, if I remember correctly the latest ones are only 6MW to 8MW max.
IEPS in naval propulsion is NEW to everyone, including the US Zumwalt and UK Type-45. These two ships used unreliable, immature IEPS. Their early adoption gave you the illusion of advancement, but their performace told the opposite story. They proved that IEPS for destroyer and cruiser is not ready yet.

The truely "mature" IEPS so far is for large ship running at relatively constant load, ships like QE-II and Type-076. In this perspective, China is advanced than most Navies. Because QE-II suffers other problem like the leaking and broken drive shaft, it does not sail much therefor not providing much real life data to verify its engineering application. So even UK is ahead of China in deploying the ship, it may not be the first to accumulate enough experience in verifying and finalizing the design for subquent usage. Besides QE-II is AC based IEPS which is a technology dead end, its experience is not much useful for future MVDC based IEPS. But Tpe-076 is MVDC well suited for destroyers and cruisers.

In engineering being a bit cautious isn't backward, being overly daring is stupid and not advanced.
 
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