054/A FFG Thread II

[sndef888]

It goes back to what the mission requires

The Type-054A already has 32 VLS cells. Why do they need more SAMs, considering that their mission is

1. Rear area convoy (ASW and Medium-Range Air Defence)
2. ASW under friendly air cover or with Destroyers carrying long-range SAMs
3. Resupply and reloading is from nearby homeports

---

I think we will see a quad packable MR-SAM for the UVLS

But remember the primary users will be the Destroyers, not Frigates

So far there are 25 Type-052D and 8 Type-055
And we're probably looking at another 20 Type-052D and 8 Type-055 in the 2021-2025 plan

That works out as a total of 4672 VLS cells available
The Destroyers already have LR-SAMs available, and a smaller number of MR-SAMs would complement this

I mean, a quadpackable sam is always a benefit. It frees up space for more anti ship or asw missiles, possibility even a few long range sams.

If they deem it too expensive they could just leave it fitted for but not with

 

[AndrewS]

I mean, a quadpackable sam is always a benefit. It frees up space for more anti ship or asw missiles, possibility even a few long range sams.

If they deem it too expensive they could just leave it fitted for but not with

Space isn't too much of an issue to build into a Frigate stretch design

For example, the Constellation Frigate has 32 Mark-41 VLS cells
They looked at adding 16 more VLS cells, and came up with a cost of $16M-$24M to do this

Note that the Constellation Frigates cost about $1100M each
Whilst the Type-054As are a lot cheaper at about $300M, you can see it isn't a huge cost increase to add extra VLS cells

It goes back to what is the mission of the Type-054A Frigate, which is as a lower-cost and lower-capability platform

You don't want it to be conducting antiship attacks, nor be in a position where it has to perform long-range air defence. These tasks are better suited to Destroyer weapons and sensor fitouts
And you really want helicopters to be dropping torpedoes at long-range, not for the Type-054A to be firing ASROC torpedoes from the VLS

 

[Andy1974]

Well I've kinda lost hope of seeing the supposed quadpackable mrsam in the next few years. The fact that they decided to build 20 more 054A rather than wait for a UVLS ready 054B tells me that it's probably still quite some time away

There is no reason the Type 054A’s and 054B’s can’t be built together at the same time. One is for close to home and one is probably more expeditionary focused.

 

[Kich]

But isn't HQ-16 a MR missile? HHQ-9 is long range missile but only destroyers has room for it, unless China develop large frigate of 6,000 to 7,000 tons like the European navies, and equip this large frigate with HHQ-9 and MR missiles. And won't this be an over-lap with type 052D?

Answering the bold question kinda is like answering what I think the future PLAN composition looks like.

I see the current 054A a green water FFG serving primary as ASW and mid-range AAW vessel. It works under the umbrella protection of destroyers and CAP/Air defence batteries from mainland, carriers, or islands. It could explain why they are building more, to build a gap for ASW in ECS and SCS and act as the main PLAN workhorse in patrolling those regional waters.

054A is a green water FFG IMO but capable at blue water ops with larger destroyers.

A future FFG will be a blue water FFG that will fill in the escort role in blue water environment at far away waters like Indian Ocean and so it needs to be capable of long-to-mid range AAW as well as ASW. This means it needs to be larger, closer to 052D size.

This means the follower up for the 052D will be a mid-size DDG--bigger than 052D but smaller than 055. 055 will be the capital ship, escorting and leading carriers, amphibious, and surface action fleet. While 05X DDG acts as the main workhorse, a role currently being filled by 052D.

This my vision of what I think PLAN is going for, but as always I could be wrong.

 

[Kejora]

Answering the bold question kinda is like answering what I think the future PLAN composition looks like.

I see the current 054A a green water FFG serving primary as ASW and mid-range AAW vessel. It works under the umbrella protection of destroyers and CAP/Air defence batteries from mainland, carriers, or islands. It could explain why they are building more, to build a gap for ASW in ECS and SCS and act as the main PLAN workhorse in patrolling those regional waters.

054A is a green water FFG IMO but capable at blue water ops with larger destroyers.

A future FFG will be a blue water FFG that will fill in the escort role in blue water environment at far away waters like Indian Ocean and so it needs to be capable of long-to-mid range AAW as well as ASW. This means it needs to be larger, closer to 052D size.

This means the follower up for the 052D will be a mid-size DDG--bigger than 052D but smaller than 055. 055 will be the capital ship, escorting and leading carriers, amphibious, and surface action fleet. While 05X DDG acts as the main workhorse, a role currently being filled by 052D.

This my vision of what I think PLAN is going for, but as always I could be wrong.

Considering that US Navy plans to replace Arleigh Burke with 13,000 ton Large Surface Combatant since they think the 9,000 ton Burke can't be upgraded further why don't China just built more type 055.

 

[Gloire_bb]

1. Rear area convoy (ASW and Medium-Range Air Defence)
2. ASW under friendly air cover or with Destroyers carrying long-range SAMs
3. Resupply and reloading is from nearby homeports

4000t warship is for ~1.5 a century accepted as a threshold of a combat ship which is going away from home shore. It still stands true today.

This description fits 056a, not an 054a...

 

[AndrewS]

Considering that US Navy plans to replace Arleigh Burke with 13,000 ton Large Surface Combatant since they think the 9,000 ton Burke can't be upgraded further why don't China just built more type 055.

We don't know if the 13,000 ton Large Surface Combatant will actually be developed and enter service

Plus these are the costs I have
Type-055: 6 Billion RMB
Type-052D: 3.5 Billion RMB
Type-054A: 1.8 Billion RMB

You can buy almost 2 Type-052Ds for the price of a single Type-055

And a Type-055 is big and expensive enough to be a target just by itself

 

[AndrewS]

4000t warship is for ~1.5 a century accepted as a threshold of a combat ship which is going away from home shore. It still stands true today.

This description fits 056a, not an 054a...

It's not about tonnage. It's about the capabilities on the Type-054A which the Type-056 doesn't have
The critical ones are:

1. medium-range air defence for convoy duty
2. an onboard helicopter for ASW

These are activities which can happen in both home and distant waters

 

[Gloire_bb]

1. medium-range air defence for convoy duty
2. an onboard helicopter for ASW

But you yourself named missions where those are not exactly mission-critical - i.e. 056a missions. Rear area convoy may perfectly do without a frigate - or it isn't a rear area anymore.
054A certainly can contribute to them (increase in risk/value of escorted/whatever) - but this is by no means mandated, and, frankly speaking - may often not be a good choice.

 

[AndrewS]

But you yourself named missions where those are not exactly mission-critical - i.e. 056a missions. Rear area convoy may perfectly do without a frigate - or it isn't a rear area anymore.
054A certainly can contribute to them (increase in risk/value of escorted/whatever) - but this is by no means mandated, and, frankly speaking - may often not be a good choice.

Even rear areas will be attacked. Hence a medium-range air defence system is useful
Otherwise ships can be picked off by single antiship missiles being launched at long-range

And once a submarine is vaguely detected, you need a helicopter or ASW aircraft to effectively localise the contact
So I imagine 1 or 2 Type-054A Frigates would operate with some Type-056s in a small group