054/A FFG Thread II

[Iron Man]

great post from Iron Man (I only saw it after my earlier reply)



These problems with cold launched missiles might actually be a good reason to "triple-pack" a hot launched missile using the remaining space as a vent.

"Triple-packed" missiles would still dramatically increase the number of missiles one can fit in the VLS.

This way even if a 054B only had 24 cells of the "new VLS" they could fit 72 medium range missiles or perhaps use only 12 cells for 36 AAW missiles and use the rest for ASROC style ASW missiles.

I think even better would just be to use a thin missile like the DK-10A that would spare enough room for a VLS tube to employ a peripheral exhaust manifold and allow maximum packing (4 missiles). An added bonus would be the active homing on the DK-10A making it fire-and-forget, which would free up all kinds of bandwidth on the firing ship, making a DK-10A-equipped 054B a truly formidable medium range air defense frigate. Of course the cost of an active homing DK-10A is surely much greater than an SARH-guided HHQ-16.

 

[schenkus]

Co-opting some space meant for a missile as an exhaust manifold instead is definitely a possibility. The only realistic arrangement IMO is a quad-pack configuration with only 3 missile and a quarter of a tube used for exhaust. My only concern is whether this quarter-tube sized exhaust will be sufficient to vent the exhaust of the missiles without overheating, especially if ripple-fired in quick succession. If insufficient then it would be down to 2 missiles in the tube with the rest of the space used for exhaust. Which would then bring up the interesting question of whether only 2 HHQ-16 is worthy of the space of 1 HHQ-9.

I guess that after one of the missiles in the cell is fired, the seperation between its "sub-cell" and the exhaust duct would be destroyed. Could this result in the exhaust getting bigger as the missiles get fired and the now empty "sub-cells" become part of the exhaust ?

 

[Jura The idiot]

If you watch some cold launch videos there is always a small delay between missile ejection and missile motor launch, which amounts to less than a second's worth of time. Between the time the missile is ejected out of the tube and the time the motor ignites, no other missile can be launched from the same bank of VLS modules because the currently ejected missile is taking up the space above them.

Now compare that to this (skip to 2:35 for the fireworks):

There is no hang time for these missiles. You can see that the rear bank of VLS modules on the AB launched two missiles nearly simultaneously, along with one missile from the forward VLS bank. I've seen other videos where 5 or 6 were ripple-fired from the same bank in less than half a second.

cool (what confused me was the combination:

If a hot-launched missile doesn't actually launch, it just stays in the tube and does not occupy the space above the VLS modules.

but I don't mean to nitpick)

Cold launched missiles start tilting even as they are ejected and continue tilting as the motor starts firing. Now just imagine multiple cold-launched missiles tilting every which way and firing all over the place right on top of each other.

I see now LOL

I'm guessing this is probably an option.

I've heard about War Mode Reserves of weaponry (something to be used only where there is no other option for example ... increasing radar transmissions to the level which will damage many modules, but may save you from just two more hits which otherwise ...)

 

[Iron Man]

I guess that after one of the missiles in the cell is fired, the seperation between its "sub-cell" and the exhaust duct would be destroyed. Could this result in the exhaust getting bigger as the missiles get fired and the now empty "sub-cells" become part of the exhaust ?

I think the bottoms of the sub-cells would have only one-way vents, otherwise during launch the exhaust from a missile would backwash into the other sub-cells that still held missiles.

 

[Jura The idiot]

I think the bottoms of the sub-cells would have only one-way vents, otherwise during launch the exhaust from a missile would backwash into the other sub-cells that still held missiles.

this reminded me of issue the Soviet Sandboxes had had on the Slavas during initial trials, which was during salvo firing the exhausts from the missiles to the bow like stifled those more aft, and it was fixed by increasing the delays (that's what Russian wiki says, I know) but also by tilting the canisters (don't recall how exactly, but it's off topic here anyway

 

[dingyibvs]

The canister is square, the missile is round, my impression was that the designed called for the space not occupied by the round missile

 

[A.Man]

Possibly 054B?

 

[Blackstone]

No stealth-detecting antenna?

 

[Blitzo]

Possibly 054B?

Almost definitely not.

This is being shown at Zhuhai. The navy had never shown a model of its surface combatants are any defence expo before it has been revealed before, and it we have no reason to think they would start now.

More likely this is just a model of a "concept frigate" at a display for what seems to be fly HQ-16 at the air show, either meant for export or just meant to show case the missile itself.


Not to mention this model doesn't make much sense either. It's ciws and sensor arrangement are bizarre.

 

[Iron Man]

That is quite a ridiculous-looking model. 2 730s AND 2 24-round HHQ-10 launchers??? Even a ship the size of a 055 doesn't get that much point defense, much less a frigate.