052C/052D Class Destroyers

PiSigma said:

Numbers are important too, you can have more ships means more presence and less time in dock. Having 3 52D instead of 2 055 means you can always have a ship out somewhere showing the flag.

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Agreed. That's my fundamental understanding as well. That is why I am curious why 55s were conceived and built to begin with, as opposed to just churning out 52Ds in ever larger quantities. What are they bringing to the table that the 52D doesn't?

CMP said:

Agreed. That's my fundamental understanding as well. That is why I am curious why 55s were conceived and built to begin with, as opposed to just churning out 52Ds in ever larger quantities. What are they bringing to the table that the 52D doesn't?

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Bigger ship, more seaworthiness, bigger and better sensors. It's just the tiered approach to ships ever since the idea of navies was born.

CMP said:

Agreed. That's my fundamental understanding as well. That is why I am curious why 55s were conceived and built to begin with, as opposed to just churning out 52Ds in ever larger quantities. What are they bringing to the table that the 52D doesn't?

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Number itself also matter for survival. 3 052D is a lot harder to kill/disable compared to 2 055.

CMP said:

Understood. To me it's just a mental shortcut for trying to figure out how expensive it is for one platform to bring to bear an equivalent quantity of firepower. I.E., x number of 55s vs z number of other ships with the same theoretical output. A way of trying to figure out if the 55's extra cost is justified by extra capabilities that any number of 52Ds cannot match.

More broadly speaking, I am trying to understand why a more expensive 55 is preferable to a larger number of 52Ds or vice versa.

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I don't mean this in a bad way, but I think it will be useful to not think about military capabilities in the manner you describe -- i.e. "quantity of firepower".

For example, in theory, if one was wanting to maximize the amount of firepower one could bring to a fight at the lowest minimum cost, then converting a few tanker hulls to arsenal ships loaded with hundreds upon hundreds of VLS would be the most extreme way of maximizing VLS count with minimal cost.

However, in reality there are force requirements that determine the need for having a given number of ships of various types and having a given number of ships to begin with (ultimately a ship can only be one place at a time).
The reason why one builds a 055 versus two or three 052D, or say a 052D versus two or three 054As or 054Bs, really needs to be considered in the totality of their costs, capabilities, and a navy's strategic requirements.

In a way, from that perspective it is easier to not consider VLS count as an important factor.

Blitzo said:

I don't mean this in a bad way, but I think it will be useful to not think about military capabilities in the manner you describe -- i.e. "quantity of firepower".

For example, in theory, if one was wanting to maximize the amount of firepower one could bring to a fight at the lowest minimum cost, then converting a few tanker hulls to arsenal ships loaded with hundreds upon hundreds of VLS would be the most extreme way of maximizing VLS count with minimal cost.

However, in reality there are force requirements that determine the need for having a given number of ships of various types and having a given number of ships to begin with (ultimately a ship can only be one place at a time).
The reason why one builds a 055 versus two or three 052D, or say a 052D versus two or three 054As or 054Bs, really needs to be considered in the totality of their costs, capabilities, and a navy's strategic requirements.

In a way, from that perspective it is easier to not consider VLS count as an important factor.

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This is the exact reason why PLAN has a so diverse navy force. As for VLS capacity i think that it's in parity with USN by making ships for specific proposes. A strong fleet ASW and point air defence frigates/corvettes relieves many VLS for area air defense and attack capabilities for the fewer(?) but bigger ships. Surely many times cost/effective than USN approach

hkvaryag said:

Not sure if it has already been entered service or not.
View attachment 120874

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What am I looking at?

2handedswordsman said:

This is the exact reason why PLAN has a so diverse navy force. As for VLS capacity i think that it's in parity with USN by making ships for specific proposes. A strong fleet ASW and point air defence frigates/corvettes relieves many VLS for area air defense and attack capabilities for the fewer(?) but bigger ships. Surely many times cost/effective than USN approach

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I have to imagine that in practice there will nonetheless be some redundancy and suboptimal VLS distributions, because you can't always rely on having the right ship in the right place at the right time. The loadouts of individual ships will depend on the degree of coordination and datalinking achievable in a contested environment, not just with other ships but also with land-based aircraft and other assets.

Emblem/crest for DDG 133 Baotou.

3x 052Ds of the 4th batch fitting out at Dalian, with the 052D DDG-165 Zhanjiang moored in the middle of the photograph.



In the meantime, can anyone geolocate this 052DL that is currently fitting out? Jiangnan or Dalian?



Both photographs are posted by @種花家的小姐姐2 on Weibo.

Also in the same post, she claimed that the 30th 052D DDG has been launched. Information is doubtful, requires further confirmation.

Wrought said:

I have to imagine that in practice there will nonetheless be some redundancy and suboptimal VLS distributions, because you can't always rely on having the right ship in the right place at the right time. The loadouts of individual ships will depend on the degree of coordination and datalinking achievable in a contested environment, not just with other ships but also with land-based aircraft and other assets.

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I think what they are doing is that the destroyers are going beyond 1st and 2nd island chain while the smaller vessels are operating in SCS for instance, closer to home.