Chinese Economics Thread

pla101prc

Senior Member
I am not so sure about that. Having the bigest R&D does not equate with entrepreneurship. It seems to me that the japanese are doing mostly sustaining R&D for their established core products but not enough disruptive R&D that can target non-consumptions and displaced established tech.

The americans still have some "cowboy" mentality and some still willing to take risk and monetize their inventions. Entrepreneurs think differently than skilled workers. some cultures promote entrepreneurship while others subdue it. We can also see why overseas chinese are setting up business whereever they live. Take south east asia for example, overseas chinese are wealthier and have huge economic clout because the native south east asian do not have a culture that promotes entrepreneurship. as a result the natives are outcompeted and the seed of hatred/jealousy is sown.

My point is, culture plays a huge part in entrepreneurism, maybe more important than R&D. Without reforms and entrepreneurs, japan is doomed to an L-shape economy.

Japan always had this same culture, its not like they had an american culture and then its suddenly changed to some Japanese culture. its still the national motivation that i was talkin about. if you fix that, Japan will find a way out.
the US has too much entrepreneurship, that's what created the dot com bubble. these profit maximizers started by manufacturing stuff, then they figured they should find ways to make money without having to work so they end up playing with numbers and derivatives and all this intangible stuff. Japan wont fall into the same trap. that's y its economy is fundamentally sound. now of course Japan needs some social and political reform before they can really get better in the long term, i cannot say what's best for Japan, but if all they do is convert into the US model, then they are screwed because that's not what they are born to do.
and i dont think its the Japanese culture that lacks the entrepreneurship. Japan has its own definition of entrepreneurship. its the social and political structure, the monopoly of power and status by those who already have it, resulting in the loss of motivation from the lower class.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
but yeah if the Japanese have the same kind of national morale as they once did during the meiji era (which they dont), economic recession aint a problem at all, they'll turn it around in 5 years.

Lost their vitality have they? Well using a Austin Powers terminology, their declining population suggests that the male population must have "lost their MOJO" as well :D (apologies to any Japanese members, couldn't resist.)
 
Last edited:

Autumn Child

Junior Member
I guess we agree that Japan needs reform before it can move again.

But I disagree with US having too much entrepreneurship. Its inevitable that progress can be painful, but out of the pain come strength. The dot com buble is a side effect of the turmoil associated in the creation of a new industry. Out of the ash, we see strong company such as google, amazon and ebay.

The financial crisis is another matter. Its also a failure of an innovation, but its due to the unbalance of under-regulation and over innovation. We don't know what comes out of it. Maybe a stronger and more regulated banks, but maybe nothing much and the bank continues to operate on leverage. I don't know and i cannot predict. BUt in the end, we see that the US economy still grows faster that Japan's in the last two decades. So we have a clear winner even if the winner makes alot of mistakes and create pain for everyone else along the way.
 

Autumn Child

Junior Member
Lost their vitality have they? Well using a Austin Powers terminology, their declining population suggests that the male population must have lost their MOJO as well :D (apologies to any Japanese members, couldn't resist.)

Actually i called it natures population control mechanism. Too many population -> more competition for resource -> more costly to raise children (materialistically and mentally)-> reduce population

Maybe one day we will see government create test tube babies just to maintain optimal workforce....and perhaps army of clones :D

sorry, :eek:ff
 
Its funny when culture is brought up as a driving force behind Chinese entreprenuerism. For millenia, merchants have been looked down upon and, in theory formed the lowest rung on the Chinese social ladder. Not to say that some did not manage to amass vast fortunes and huge clout and influence...
 

Autumn Child

Junior Member
Its funny when culture is brought up as a driving force behind Chinese entreprenuerism. For millenia, merchants have been looked down upon and, in theory formed the lowest rung on the Chinese social ladder. Not to say that some did not manage to amass vast fortunes and huge clout and influence...

Yet there is god of fortune in chinese culture...the only major culture that have such deities. You do know what chinese say during new years right? Is there any other culture that wish other people to be rich every new year? How many chinese parents presurized their children to be successful(=do well in what they do to create wealth)?
 

wdl1976

New Member
lmao that reminds me of this formal debate i had with this person over the universality of the western democratic system, i told him that the two most successful countries in Asia are Japan and Singapore...i won:roll:

Hmm is Singapore a real democracy based on Western value and system?
Then what is your opinion of the Internal Security Act
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
)
and what is your opinion of the imprisonment of political activists?
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

And who is the current PM of Singapore? and what is his relationship with the previous PM?

And I thought that Chinese model is actually derived from the Singaporean model.

The reality is Singapore is not a democracy but the people are content with the way the country is being run, the stability and the prosperity.

In case of Japan, I guess they are very good at adopting and perfecting theories and Ideas this would include not only democracy but also Imperialism.

Further current Japan success is actually owed to the amount of capital that was injected as the result of ... non other than the Korean war in which the Japanese and the Soviets who came out as the clear winner.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
I wonder how long they can keep this up without significant export growth.

Note Xilinx and Altera. These are companies that supply PGAs or Programmable Gate Arrays. These are like blank chips you can use to program your own set of logic and rules to create your own chipsets. Basically you want to use them when your volume demands are too low to go to to a fab to do the production. So a lot of small chipset design houses use PGAs.


Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:55pm

By Clare Baldwin - Analysis

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - U.S. companies are slashing costs, eliminating staff and reporting some of their gloomiest earnings in years, but there is one salve to all the pain -- China.

While consumers and businesses in much of the world are throttling back on spending, there are signs that the Chinese economy is pulling out of a short dip in growth and companies that expanded there in recent years are reaping the dividends.

Optimism about China stretches across a wide range of American industry, from mining and construction equipment maker Caterpillar Inc (CAT.N) to KFC-chain operator Yum Brands Inc (YUM.N).

They say its insatiable appetite for everything from heavy machinery to fast food -- due in part to an $585 billion Chinese government stimulus package -- is stabilizing the market and providing a growth outlet just when they need it most.

"China has been the gold standard on the stimulus package. It was early, large, and well-designed and it's already gotten very substantial results," said Nicholas Lardy, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics.

China's gross domestic product growth in the first quarter was only 6.1 percent, the weakest since quarterly figures were first available in 1992, but scorching when compared with the 5 percent contraction expected by economists for the U.S. economy in a recent Reuters poll.

Signs that the Chinese economy is heading back to much higher growth rates over the rest of the year have resounded through the earnings season.

Coca-Cola Co (KO.N) CEO Muhtar Kent said on Tuesday that first-quarter soft-drink sales rose 10 percent by volume in China, its third-largest market, but fell in Europe.

"Very healthy," Kent said, adding that the world's largest soft-drink maker has a $2 billion investment program in China over the next three years.

CHINA'S BAIL-OUT

China, which is the world's third-largest economy behind the United States and Japan, is expected to be the first major economy to recover from a financial crisis that has decimated business worldwide.

In addition to easing interest rates to jump-start lending and developing infrastructure for high speed rail, telecommunications and power grid distribution, China is aggressively trying to spur consumer demand, for instance, by improving health care and pension payments.

Ambitious Western companies such as fast-food giant Yum are determined to profit. Calling China the "largest restaurant opportunity of the 21st century," CEO David Novak on Wednesday said the company will invest more than $1 billion in new capital in China in the next three years.

Yum -- the parent of the KFC and Pizza Hut chains -- and its rival McDonald's (MCD.N) have long battled it out in the country, spending aggressively on marketing and vying to compete with discount options and by offering Chinese items on their menus.

"Trust me, as long as we continue to expect this type of return, we will continue to rapidly expand in China," Yum's Chief Financial Officer Richard Carucci said.

But Yum's China results -- with same-store sales up only 2 percent -- were weaker than analysts expected, and McDonald's, which has a much smaller China operation, said on Wednesday it would open fewer stores than planned because Chinese diners were trading down to lower-priced options.

"Economic weakness in China has impacted our sales and margins, especially in southern China where manufacturers have closed," McDonald's CEO Jim Skinner said.

Still, underlying business in China remains strong and McDonald's will lower lunch prices to compete with Chinese fast food that sells for 30 percent to 40 percent less, President and COO Ralph Alvarez added.
"It's dilutive to margins, obviously, and to average check, but this is a long-term gain," he said.

INFRASTRUCTURE GROWTH

The best opportunities in China may be for companies that can tap into the infrastructure build-out that is part of the stimulus plan, Haas School of Business senior lecturer Paul Tiffany said.

Sandy Cutler, CEO of U.S. diversified manufacturer Eaton Corp (ETN.N), said on Monday he has seen increased orders in Eaton's hydraulics business coming from China, in what he calls the country's stimulus-driven "heartbeat."

Caterpillar (CAT.N) Inc CFO Dave Burritt agreed that China's stimulus package was also a driver for his company's better-than-expected sales.

Programmable chipmakers Altera Corp (ALTR.O) and Xilinx Inc (XLNX.O) are also pegging their hopes on China.

China is spending $42 billion on its 3G network over two years, versus the U.S. earmark of $7.2 billion for rural broadband in the next 18 months -- which makes the Asian country key, said Altera CEO John Daane.

"China is spending money at a greater rate than Obama is," Global Crown Capital analyst David Wu said in reference to President Barack Obama's U.S. economic stimulus package.

(Reporting by Clare Baldwin; Additional reporting by Lisa Baertlein in Los Angeles, Martinne Geller and Nick Zieminski in New York and James Kelleher in Chicago; Editing by Edwin Chan, Martin Howell and Maureen Bavdek)

\
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Last edited:

pla101prc

Senior Member
Hmm is Singapore a real democracy based on Western value and system?
Then what is your opinion of the Internal Security Act
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
)
and what is your opinion of the imprisonment of political activists?
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

And who is the current PM of Singapore? and what is his relationship with the previous PM?

And I thought that Chinese model is actually derived from the Singaporean model.

The reality is Singapore is not a democracy but the people are content with the way the country is being run, the stability and the prosperity.

In case of Japan, I guess they are very good at adopting and perfecting theories and Ideas this would include not only democracy but also Imperialism.

Further current Japan success is actually owed to the amount of capital that was injected as the result of ... non other than the Korean war in which the Japanese and the Soviets who came out as the clear winner.

those were my points...neither singapore nor japan are really democracies. they are just democracy in name.
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
I guess we agree that Japan needs reform before it can move again.

But I disagree with US having too much entrepreneurship. Its inevitable that progress can be painful, but out of the pain come strength. The dot com buble is a side effect of the turmoil associated in the creation of a new industry. Out of the ash, we see strong company such as google, amazon and ebay.

The financial crisis is another matter. Its also a failure of an innovation, but its due to the unbalance of under-regulation and over innovation. We don't know what comes out of it. Maybe a stronger and more regulated banks, but maybe nothing much and the bank continues to operate on leverage. I don't know and i cannot predict. BUt in the end, we see that the US economy still grows faster that Japan's in the last two decades. So we have a clear winner even if the winner makes alot of mistakes and create pain for everyone else along the way.

the difference between Japan and US economy is one that is fundamentally sound and one that is fundamentally screwed. the US cant revive itself without going back to manufacturing, but unfortunately they already killed manufacturing and its impossible to get it back. i doubt the american ppl wanna abandon their luxurious life style either, i dont see how American economy is gonna start growing again (real growth), cuz if they really have an alternative to the asset bubble they would have used it back in 2001.
 
Top