Hong-Kong Protests

Thanks to the rioters, this murderer got released from Prison today!

All because the rioters didn't want the extradition bill pass, so criminals and murderers can be returned for trail. This guy himself have said he will give in to the Taiwan authority. However, Taiwan is playing politics, by still holding on to the fallacy of nationhold! Figures.

Can anyone tell me about this character?
Mrs S is listening to his podcasts all the time and I worry he might be Falun Gong or similar
Thanks

localizer said:

@manqiangrexue the biggest let down is allowing these HKers greater "freedom" more than mainlainders.
Why should they be able to riot without consequences and have an open internet and all.

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HK doesn't have more actual freedom than the mainland, HK is more open than the mainland and therefore open to both good and bad influences.

That is language borne out of a fundamental problem with Western propaganda, maybe even some Western thought, that it confuses actual freedom with openness mainly because it is angling for others to be open to Western influence but not the other way around (even if it is influenced by others still not admit it, "New Age" instead of Asian beliefs) and builds upon Western self-righteousness or in the case of the US "exceptionalism".

SampanViking said:

Can anyone tell me about this character?
Mrs S is listening to his podcasts all the time and I worry he might be Falun Gong or similar
Thanks

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He is a longtime anti-CCP/PRC personality.

SampanViking said:

Can anyone tell me about this character?
Mrs S is listening to his podcasts all the time and I worry he might be Falun Gong or similar
Thanks

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Shiu is anti-CCP and pro-West but that isn't the problem. The problem with Shiu is that he loves conspiracy theories and like to make extraordinary claims. Shiu basically was never right about any of his predictions. Shiu is an entertainer that loves to talk about nonsense. As long as viewers don't take him seriously, no serious harm. Otherwise, Shiu is similar like Falun Gong.

SampanViking said:

Can anyone tell me about this character?
Mrs S is listening to his podcasts all the time and I worry he might be Falun Gong or similar
Thanks

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Just watch some of his channel's videos, especially the more recent ones, and you'll get the idea. I used to subscribe and frequent his channel. As I'm not proficient in Mandarin, his channel is one of the few Cantonese outlets where I (thought, silly me) could get a more intimate view on Chinese politics. Even back then, you could tell that it doesn't really pass the smell test, as they'd occasionally insert some snarky remarks whenever the topics came to the Chinese government, though they were more subtle, and I just brushed it off as the normal Hong Kong'er's mainland bias. And they do have some interesting discussions when it came to Chinese history, which is relatively politics free.

Well, that was then. Seems like the riots of this year have the strange effect of "outing" his channel, and a lot of others so called neutral outlets for the pure BS propaganda that they are. Gone are the (fake) calls for peaceful protests, and reasoning.

I don't care how much knowledge, experience or education that these guys have, but if they couldn't tell the difference between a peaceful protest and full on terrorism, then they're not worth my time.

manqiangrexue said:

Ohhhhh I'm the loser with all the likes on my comments and you're the winner fantasizing about water deprivation, a plan which no one else supports, in an imaginary secession, right? LOL OK, I'm just saying, by your old logic that the person going off on a tangent is the loser, that's clearly you with the incinerator. Gonna move the goal post on that too?

Once again, screw your water deprivation BS. You cannot cause that amount of collateral damage to patriotic citizens just because they don't self-organize into equally active pro-Beijing riots. If Hong Kong seceeds, as I said, tanks and military, minimize damage to patriots; absolutely no blanket treatment of the city, punishing those who don't deserve it.

My resolve might be violent, but it targets exactly those who deserve it and not just everyone in Hong Kong.


I'm looking but I'm not seeing. You might be pro-Beijing; I never said you're not, but your plan sucks and revolves around a non-existent situation based on principles that fail to define the role of the citizen and the role of the government. You are a perfect example of why the model citizen shuts up and supports his government instead of trying to enact his own ideals. Your heart's in the right place but your head is nowhere to be seen.

But let me be clear about this: the CCP has let these patriots down by not protecting them, and not securing their city. That is a fact; they have been let down because they are oppressed and alone, endangered in their country for loving their country. BUT I would never accuse the CCP of incompetence or making a wrong choice. In regards to that, they have my total confidence and undying support. I like to think that the plan in Zhongnanhai, which I don't know, is highly strategic and requires some sacrifice and endurance from these patriots before they are rewarded. For the national good, Beijing cannot be as violent as I want them to be. And as I've always contended, "Your country can betray you but you can never betray your country." Maybe these people were thrown under the bus for the better good of China; it's cold-blooded decision that I can mourn but never protest, but the fact is, as of now, the patriots of Hong Kong have been let down by the CCP.

And your whole point seemed to be centered around the mistaken principle of "If patriots don't riot or mass protest, then they don't deserve consideration." Now, it's been shown that not only is that based on an inability to understand the role of citizen and government but also your failure to keep up with the events showing that those protests did indeed happen. And now, there's more:
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/hong-kong-protests.t8580/page-235#post-575460

So seriously, with every point of your argument broken or completely irrelevant from the start, why don't you just STFU?

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At this point, it's obvious that Beijing is not going to intervene unless things get a lot worse, or if they do plan on intervention, they are sticking to their own timeline. As much as I would love to see the PAP restore order to HK, I am certain that the central government has access to more information than I do, and that they are far more competent than I in making the decision on if and when intervention will happen. No rally or show of support from pro-China residents of HK will change that calculation, therefore they would be far better off keeping their heads down and wait for the storm to pass.

PanAsian said:

HK doesn't have more actual freedom than the mainland, HK is more open than the mainland and therefore open to both good and bad influences.

That is language borne out of a fundamental problem with Western propaganda, maybe even some Western thought, that it confuses actual freedom with openness mainly because it is angling for others to be open to Western influence but not the other way around (even if it is influenced by others still not admit it, "New Age" instead of Asian beliefs) and builds upon Western self-righteousness or in the case of the US "exceptionalism".

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I think the first part of what you said is spot on (confusing actual freedom and openness), but I don't think the "not being open the other way around" is really the case.

However, to the first point, a good example is the court system, where people keep touting "rule of law" and judicial transparency as hallmarks of "freedom". The idea is that if there is adherence to rules, then the authorities cannot weaponize it against the people (basically one of the tenets of the protests). However, anyone with even half a critical brain cell would know this is a joke.

In Canada, look no further than Meng Wenzhou, US essentially created sanctions (not even applicable to Canada) and requested extradition and prompted her arrest. There is the argument, "Well, she gets to live in a $15 million mansion, that's no kind of detention", or "She is out on bail, proof that the system works", but these are non-sequiturs, because it assumes that the initial arrest was not prompted by politics in the first place. Also, really, the fact that her wealth can buy her all those special privileges really only makes more of a mockery of the system, any poor person with a crap lawyer would just rot in jail for who knows how long?

It goes even further than this, wealthy Paul Singer can weaponize the US court system to bring an entire country to it's knees (Argentina), and misery to its denizens. Corporations can bring endless lawsuits/legal threats to common people over stupid things like MP3 sharing. All of this is "legal", but who thinks it is "just"? So really, is injustice not oppression?

To your final point, Western self-righteousness is just a political tool. It is essentially just the modern replacement for Christianity in neo-colonialist doctrine. Instead of "Gospel and Heaven", it is "Democracy and Human Rights". Again, it is built on a logical fallacy, that the cushy life we have in Western countries is because of their respect for these principles. Wrong, it is because Western countries are wealthy countries. Even if you come to to these countries with "nothing" (as many immigrant success stories begin), there is a capital base or education base that exists for you to exploit that simply does not exist in a poor country. Politics has nothing to do with it.

I think for human rights to be exploited in this way is especially sad. Western politicians love to make the case that democracy is a human right. Honestly, if you have nothing to eat, no clean water to drink, no roof over your head, I don't think you care who you can vote for. If you cannot live, then there are no human rights. Western politicians exploit people's basic ignorance of the world outside their comfort zone to push this agenda. PRC is so vilified, read any comment on a news story, and its filled with near-racist invective. Yet how many of these people have actually been to China? or how many just dismiss it as "a communist hellhole"? If they have been to China, how many have been out of the cities and into the countryside? It's still so poor, a family friend who does charity work showed me pictures of an orphan collect branches to burn for heating. Simply collapsing the government won't help these people, it certainly did not help the people of Libya.

Relating back to HK, it's so obvious to see the exploitation. Western politicians constantly egging on the rioters. Calling them "non-violent" (Alexandra Oscaio Cortez tweet: ) only further encouraging this destruction. They exploit the ignorance and naivete of youth to push their own agenda. Meanwhile the entire city suffers. Even the peaceful people who legitimately want to preserve autonomy under 1C2S suffers (probably these people suffer the most). Media constantly pushing the narrative that the central government is "suffocating" HK, they are the worst. They have actually literally done nothing (somewhat to the consternation of their supporters in the city). Honestly, even if there is no active American agitation through intelligence agencies (which I don't believe, at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist), the media did the job for them.

All this talk of loyalty is misguided. The People's Republic of China is not some two-bit dictatorship that requires every citizen to swear undying loyalty to the regime. The only thing the PRC requires of its citizens is that they follow the laws of the nation. You don't even need to be a productive citizen if you don't want to be, though the state is not going to feed you.

Beijing is not going to modify their plans for HK based on the presence or absence of pro-China rallies, that is simply nonsense. There is also no question of whether HK "deserves" intervention. Any intervention will be done for the strategic good of the entire nation, including HK, regardless of whether HK deserves it or not.

Furthermore, I believe HK citizens, regardless of their political affiliation, need to start contemplating the worst-case scenario: that this state of unrest will become the new normal.

supersnoop said:

Western politicians love to make the case that democracy is a human right.

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"Democracy" means rule of/by the people. It doesn't mean general elections or multi-party systems or unfettered media. Those are just ways the West implements their own political system.

Democracy is actually a universal value, something the founding fathers of modern China, Sun Yatsen and Mao Zedong both, fought for. When Chairman Mao said "the Chinese People have stood up", he was talking about Chinese democracy.

The West would love to have people believe that democracy can only exist in the form they dictate.