It might! Really difficult to draw out more insights without more information.
J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI
- Thread starter siegecrossbow
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I mean, if the question is "how were J-10Cs and J-11Bs able to lock on" to J-20s, well I think the most simple and most sensible answer is that once you reach WVR for IR and ImIR missiles, the radar return of a J-20 would be sufficient for minimal weapons quality cuing to enable the IR or ImIR sensors to achieve a lock.
Once you're in WVR, not only are you at a much closer range to a stealth fighter meaning your radar return is more solid, but it also means you're probably trying to get on each other's tail which would require a stealth fighter to maneuvre heavily thus exposing its control surfaces to greater radar returns, but more importantly you'll get a chance to sneak a look at the stealth fighter's less stealthy rear end which is the case for basically all 5th gen fighters (i.e.: the principle that the rear end with engine nozzles and engine blades will produce larger returns than the front with carefully managed ducting to hide the engines)
Hyperwarp
Captain
Wasn't it 20 km with the J-16 radar? Or at least an AESA equipped PLAAF fighter managed to detect the J-20 at around 20 km?
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Just a small point. But when we have gotten photos of the F22 And F35 doing show of force patrols they do wear radar reflectors so the other side knows they are there.
So it's not totally invalid if you are intending to practice to intimidate a Show of force demonstration, but less so to prepare for actual possible combat.
So it's not totally invalid if you are intending to practice to intimidate a Show of force demonstration, but less so to prepare for actual possible combat.
Maybe. I’d have to look back and dig. Wrote that comment at work, so obviously not face checked ^^;
Given the scenario would've been planned to result in combat I feel like giving the orange force luneberg lenses would've been a bit silly.
I'm also not sure if the scenario described would've caused orange force to merely be loaded out as a "show of force patrol" so much as a "monitor an active combat scenario where there is a high risk of accidental escalation leading to potential air to air combat" so giving the potential opfor an advantage like a luneberg lens would not be very sensible
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
I disagree, it's not silly it's more... well the word "frightening" even "Provocative" comes to mind.
The only reason I can see reflectors being worn by "Orange-for" is if they have no intention of combat and feel secure in operations where they are.
I E a freedom of navigation style operation, showing the flag.
The reflectors being there so the Red force sees them.
By that logic it seems like a trap scenario.
IE flying the show of force patrol and finding that the other side uses it to create a international incident.
Like the Kobayashi Maru test from Star trek.
Enterprise in patrol, distress call from Kobayashi Maru claims to have hit mine has drifted into the Klingon Space Identification zone. Enterprise commander enters the zone and is attacked by three waiting battle cruisers. The Klingons are justified "By Khaless they entered our space."
From the previous description it seemed like the scenario was one where a war between the PLA and ROC forces had already begun. I.e.: trigger fingers are already active, weapons are actively being shot at each other, and the two active sides are actively killing each other.
In such a scenario if the USAF were to send F-22s to what would effectively be an active high intensity warzone in a context where US geopolitical and military intentions to the PLA and PRC would be under great suspicion, would it make sense to deploy them with luneberg lenses? I would suspect not. Why even deploy F-22s in that case if they're going to put luneberg lenses on them, why not just send non-stealthy 4th gen fighters instead?
Or similarly, have USAF F-22 missions over Syria (which is a much more benign air combat environment) regularly flown with luneberg lenses?
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Exactly. The stated scenario seems off.
If that situation was in the US would by treaty be in conflict with the PRC. So no reflectors the Raptors would be in full "Predator mode" hunting enemy air. Why allow a AWACS to beam them and send fighters to intercept if you are out for blood?
There first job would be to down the AWACS and Tankers on the PLA side with fighters as targets of opportunity.
The only reason why the USAF would be in observer ROE for a PRC ROC war would be if the President and US has basically decided not to engage pulled out of treaty and surrendered Taiwan.
If that situation was in the US would by treaty be in conflict with the PRC. So no reflectors the Raptors would be in full "Predator mode" hunting enemy air. Why allow a AWACS to beam them and send fighters to intercept if you are out for blood?
There first job would be to down the AWACS and Tankers on the PLA side with fighters as targets of opportunity.
The only reason why the USAF would be in observer ROE for a PRC ROC war would be if the President and US has basically decided not to engage pulled out of treaty and surrendered Taiwan.
It sounds to me like it was a scenario whereby the orange force F-22s were sent to closely monitor the situation where the US had yet to decide whether to enter the fight, and then red force fighters and AEW&C were able to detect and then home in on them perhaps to visually ID them and escort them away likely with both sides having the instructions of "do not fire unless fired upon", but then the nature of the high tension situation led to a dogfight only after both sides had entered WVR.
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