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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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It's not much of a leap to develop a drone carrier when you have the ability to construct a full fledged carrier.

I'm going to say that's a bit overoptimistic considering how many nations in the world today are capable of constructing a full fledged carrier, yet few if any of those nations have yet to define what a drone carrier may look like let alone build one of their own -- and some of those nations have far more complex and capable drone industries than Japan does.



I don't think Japan will pursue a full fledged carrier in the first place but don't think JMSDF will be satisfied with a light carrier with limited capabilities either.
I believe the best route for Japan is to develop a drone carrier that can work with the US CVBG or coordinate with the JASDF when closer to sovereign territory.

Lol all I'm saying is that your previous statement of -- "Jeff to be honest I don't think JMSDF will settle for a half a$$ light carrier when Japan has the capability to construct a full fledged carrier today if she wanted one" -- is a vast oversimplification that doesn't consider political will and cost.

I'm not too interested in whether Japan actually decides to build a "full fledged carrier" or a "drone carrier" or to build F-35B carriers like Izumo-mod or whether they don't build carriers at all, considering there are no current plans from the Japanese govt or military around the topic.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
I'm going to say that's a bit overoptimistic considering how many nations in the world today are capable of constructing a full fledged carrier, yet few if any of those nations have yet to define what a drone carrier may look like let alone build one of their own -- and some of those nations have far more complex and capable drone industries than Japan does.

And the ones that does also have a manned carrier namely GB, France and US.
Those nations already operating one is not going to invest operating drone carriers. Japan is the only nation that has both capabilities and not have a manned fixed wing carrier in the fleet making it a very strong candidate to develop one leap frogging manned fixed winged carriers altogether.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
And the ones that does also have a manned carrier namely GB, France and US.
Those nations already operating one is not going to invest operating drone carriers. Japan is the only nation that has both capabilities and not have a manned fixed wing carrier in the fleet making it a very strong candidate to develop one leap frogging manned fixed winged carriers altogether.

I don't think that makes much sense when looking at the kind of precursor technologies, industries and in service capabilities that would allow a nation to be able to develop a ship of that kind, but I'm pretty indifferent to topic I'm not going to bother contesting anything.
 
D

Deleted member 13312

Guest
Software is initial cost not running cost which is written in the books separately. As for fully autonomous, don't think that will happen for a while, but swarm concept has come a great deal of ways to be considered for actual usage.
Basically a pre-programmed maneuver following the lead plane. The lead will be piloted by a person in a remote location and the lead plane can switch from one drone to the next and another watching the swarm can coordinate the attack by calling out which programs the swarm will use. In other words only semi autonomous.
Not exactly, continuous evolution of targets and threat environments demands constant updating of said software to adapt to those situations, also separating initial costs and running costs does not make a weapon's platform any less expensive, 1+1 still equals 2 no matter how ones cuts it. Writing separate books is a well used sleight of hand by sellers and accounts to mislead the actual price.

Swarm concept still requires constant updates as well as target identification, the most that modern tech can do atm is merely ensure that the drones arrive at their designated spot at the designated time. A drone will either need cutting edge AI or direct human interface (which requires extremely secure lines of communications in the face of advance jamming) to make on-the-spot decisions when the pre-programmed directives are rendered obsolete, both of which will require a princely sum.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Right now, being blunt there are missions that drones can do and cannot.
For strike missions drones are Okay. For air to air drones are no go. And even into the next decade that seems the rule.
Politically speaking drones are not likely to ever actually shed the human tether. Because if it comes time to potentially attack humans, Military and Government agencies and Officials want there to be a living breathing human able to that responsibility and pull the trigger.

Fully autonomous drones for recon or close support of manned forces perhaps but totally autonomous operations across the sea control mission set of a carrier or strike missions, is just to Skynet.

For flexibility for ease of transition between manned and unmanned. Conventional carrier types are likely to be the rule for the foreseeable future and beyond.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Swarm concept still requires constant updates as well as target identification, the most that modern tech can do atm is merely ensure that the drones arrive at their designated spot at the designated time. A drone will either need cutting edge AI or direct human interface (which requires extremely secure lines of communications in the face of advance jamming) to make on-the-spot decisions when the pre-programmed directives are rendered obsolete, both of which will require a princely sum.

There is a human link within my proposal where the lead drone will be a operated through remote control.
Jamming satellite links from the surface is nearly impossible when the drone is in air in which case you'll need an electronic-warfare aircraft above the combat zone making it a prime target.
There is also a quarter back beside the lead within the loop that will adjust and adapt to the opponent's move so they won't become obsolete as well.
The lead is the eyes and the quarter back is the brain both operating via satellite link.
 
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Japan’s defense industry continues to grow. But is it in for rough seas?
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Japan’s homegrown
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continues to secure significant amounts of contracts from the U.S. government, but concerns linger over the high level of spending on big-ticket items acquired via the U.S. Foreign Military Sales program, and the outlook for Japan’s push into the global arms market remains cloudy.

Figures released by the Japanese Ministry of Defense show that over Japan’s previous fiscal year, which ran from April 1, 2017 to March 31, 2018, the top 10 Japanese defense contractors were awarded contracts worth $7.5 billion, with nine of these making it into
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. Two — Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries — were in the top half of the list.

Among ongoing programs in which Japanese companies are participating are new wheeled, self-propelled artillery; armored fighting vehicles; and infantry fighting vehicles for the country’s Ground Self-Defense Force, while its Maritime Self-Defense Force is due to receive more ballistic missile defense-capable destroyers, multipurpose destroyers and submarines.

...
... got a phone call at this point while reading this interesting article, have to go now
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
thread going from fan art Thursday at 2:53 AM
to "drone Carrier Battle Group" Today at 3:32 AM


Japanese Archipelago is narrow, so air cover of neighboring seas from the land wouldn't have shore-to-shore issue;

the Japanese would need aircraft carriers if they were up to something funny
Same could be said towards PRC but that has not stopped PRC from acquiring carriers.
Basically if you try hard enough you will find the monster hiding under your bed.LoL
 
Today at 8:11 AM
Japan’s defense industry continues to grow. But is it in for rough seas?
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... got a phone call at this point while reading this interesting article, have to go now
the rest of
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However, with concerns over
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and the continued threat of North Korea’s nuclear and ballistic missile programs, there is unease that Japan’s increasing reliance on the FMS program for big-ticket defense articles, such as the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and
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, will reduce the share of the defense budget available for homegrown companies.

According to Defense Ministry figures, Japan’s spending on FMS purchases has climbed more than tenfold from $390 million in fiscal 2011 to a record high of $4.4 billion in fiscal 2016, although that figure is expected to drop slightly to $3.6 billion in the current fiscal year, according to the ministry.

The increasing spending on FMS has put pressure on Japan’s policy of building up its domestic defense industry to attain a level of autonomy in meeting its defense needs. The policy has been in place since the 1970s, and yet FMS acquisitions typically have minimal local industry participation.

This policy of autonomy has seen Japanese industry build all of the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force’s ships in service today, and until recently the country was able to build its own fighter aircraft, although that run ended when production of the Mitsubishi F-2, which is a heavily modified and enlarged Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon, ended in 2011.

In the long term, however, Japan will need to look at how much autonomy it wants to maintain over its own defense-industrial base, given geopolitical and industrial realities, according to Corey Wallace, an Einstein postdoctoral fellow in the Graduate School of East Asian Studies at Freie Universitat in Berlin, Germany. He said the best approach for Japan is for domestic industry to “be better integrated into any foreign purchase programs” and to accept cross-national cooperation in the development of certain systems, in effect being selective in the amount of industrial autonomy Japanese companies retain.

One of the hurdles affecting Japan’s drive toward industrial autonomy is the cost of acquisition and sustainment of indigenous products, which is higher due to Japan’s small, niche defense market and its unique requirements. For example, Bloomberg reported that the country’s Finance Ministry had recommended abandoning production of the Mitsubishi C-2 airlifter in favor of buying the Lockheed C-130J Hercules, which costs half of its Japanese counterpart and is better able to operate from semi-developed airfields, although it carries less cargo and operates at slower speeds.

Still, the Japanese government is keen to support its industrial base. For example, Mitsui and Japan Marine United Corporation managing to secure contracts to build part of eight multipurpose destroyers, despite both companies losing the overall contract to Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.

The government of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has also relaxed laws regarding Japanese defense exports, making it easier for Japanese companies to sell defense articles overseas. However, some restrictions remain over which countries Japanese companies can sell to, and Japan has yet to conclude a successful defense export sale since the laws were relaxed in 2014.

This is partly due to Japanese defense companies' lack of experience with the global arms market, which, combine with associated costs, has meant Japanese companies struggle to market their products against more savvy Western firms and are unable to compete on price for more budget-conscious potential customers.
 
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