J-10 Thread IV

siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Figaro said:
I remember some time ago, the Gripen beat the J-11A in the same exercise. The J-11 apparently won in WVR combat but was beaten in BVR and some other category ... If this rumor's true, congrats to the PLAAF. The Gripen is a serious competitor to any 4th generation fighter ...
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J-11A lost because the ones used were using the same radar and avionics as those of the original Su-27UBK.
 
K

kyuryu

Junior Member
On a slight tangent, is there any aerodynamic or technical reasons why the J-10's don't carry wing tip air to air missiles like the AIM-9 or AIM-120 series (ala the F-16 and Gripen) which a contemporaries? Clearly the J-10 seems like an excellent WVR dogfighter and not having these two extra wing tip hard points seems like a wasted opportunity - any thoughts?
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
kyuryu said:
On a slight tangent, is there any aerodynamic or technical reasons why the J-10's don't carry wing tip air to air missiles like the AIM-9 or AIM-120 series (ala the F-16 and Gripen) which a contemporaries? Clearly the J-10 seems like an excellent WVR dogfighter and not having these two extra wing tip hard points seems like a wasted opportunity - any thoughts?
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You pay an aerodynamic and drag penalties for having wingtip missiles because you need to clip the wings to put them there.

In addition, having two heavy missiles there requires additional strengthening of the wing to support the weight, especially under high G.

The Rafale also keeps a full wingtip, and the Typhoon does a half compromise by only having ECM pods on the wingtips instead of full missile launch rails. The Gripen is the only 4th gen delta canard that has wingtip rails.

The Chinese have never been a fan of the western obsession with fitting as much ordinance possible on their warplanes because they know logistics is key when fighting near peers or superior enemies.

Having 10+AAMs on a medium weight fighter is just asking for trouble when fighting similarly equipped foes, as in all likelihood, very few of your fighters would realistically be able to efficiently fire off so many missiles in a single sortie before running out of targets and/or fuel and/or time/luck.

Against the foes they are expecting to face, for a J10 to fire 2-4 BVRAAMs and 2 WVRAAMs to kill 1-6 enemy F15/16/18s or Su27/30s per sortie and get home safe would be an outstanding outcome.

But realistically, it would not be unreasonable to think that in a mass furball that your typical fighter would only be able fire off more than 4 BVRAAMs before merging with what is left of the enemy or getting tagged themselves.

In the high intencity world of WVR, again, 2 shots would probably be about the median life/fuel expectancy of a fighter. And you would not want to be lugging too many BVRAAMs around in WVR if you can avoid it, so pilots would be forced to choose to take deadweight into a knife fight or to dump them.
 
M

MastanKhan

Junior Member
plawolf said:
You pay an aerodynamic and drag penalties for having wingtip missiles because you need to clip the wings to put them there.

In addition, having two heavy missiles there requires additional strengthening of the wing to support the weight, especially under high G.

The Rafale also keeps a full wingtip, and the Typhoon does a half compromise by only having ECM pods on the wingtips instead of full missile launch rails. The Gripen is the only 4th gen delta canard that has wingtip rails.

The Chinese have never been a fan of the western obsession with fitting as much ordinance possible on their warplanes because they know logistics is key when fighting near peers or superior enemies.

Having 10+AAMs on a medium weight fighter is just asking for trouble when fighting similarly equipped foes, as in all likelihood, very few of your fighters would realistically be able to efficiently fire off so many missiles in a single sortie before running out of targets and/or fuel and/or time/luck.

Against the foes they are expecting to face, for a J10 to fire 2-4 BVRAAMs and 2 WVRAAMs to kill 1-6 enemy F15/16/18s or Su27/30s per sortie and get home safe would be an outstanding outcome.

But realistically, it would not be unreasonable to think that in a mass furball that your typical fighter would only be able fire off more than 4 BVRAAMs before merging with what is left of the enemy or getting tagged themselves.

In the high intencity world of WVR, again, 2 shots would probably be about the median life/fuel expectancy of a fighter. And you would not want to be lugging too many BVRAAMs around in WVR if you can avoid it, so pilots would be forced to choose to take deadweight into a knife fight or to dump them.
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Hi,

Thank you for a ' very sane ' post---.
 
FORBIN

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Hyperwarp said:
Looks like a J-10C with PL-15. It could just be an optical illusion and the PL-15 is just on the inner pylon. IIRC we've only seen PL-8 or PL-10 on the outermost pylon in the J-10A/B.
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If a day we can have files as it for chinese with various weapon loads as it can be great o_O

:cool:
Rafale Sup Aér Interception Anti-Navires Att Nucléaire.png

Or this style sufficient
RU Tu-22M3 s' il est modernisé avec Kh-101.jpg
 
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