CV-17 Shandong (002 carrier) Thread I ...News, Views and operations

dingyibvs said:

bd, you guys must've been briefed on the Kuznetsov's capabilities in the past, what's the USN's take on the Su-33's MTOW from the Kuznetsov?

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The SU 33s from adm k is not considered a big enough threat to us csg. I will leave it at that.

Our concerns were in the undersea domains. Waking homers and slcms put many commanders lie awake at night.

Air Force Brat said:

you nailed it here kid! that's all he meant, nice interpretation, and getting to the "nub" of what he was saying, great post, and not just because I agree with you, nice job Bub.
"the buddy refueling will def make a big difference", its just capacity limited, say you wanted to top off a 4 ship, they could prolly do that??

BD or Kwai, do you have any idea how many birds you would put refueling packs on???

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Exact no comparison with a Tanker a Super Hornet with 4 FTs a little fuel in pod plus the rest have for 12 t of fuel ( same as KA-6D ) about 50 % disponible for refuel i think, no comparison with tankers 23 - 160 tons ... ! so as you say a capacity, in more only about a flight do this mission each can refuel a F-18 so finaly a 1/2 Sqn more if transfer less fuel for helps fgihters short in fuel or other.

dingyibvs said:

20 minutes to launch all of them is an impressive rate indeed. I'd guess that 001/A can't launch with 5(!) large drop tanks as well, though I think it can probably launch with more than many give them credit for.

Just curious, what makes the K unable to replenish underway? That seems like a rather basic and useful function.

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Each cat can lauch to max 1 aicraft all 20 sec, new EMALS one all 11 sec ! increase the power the salvo size in fact to consider aslo for it ammos, fuel aviation capacity with sorties number possible.

I don't know if this has been posted before, but any information on the radar on this thing? It looks way bigger than any that come before, way bigger than the last carrier and way bigger than 052D

Any technical specs floating around on the net?

sanblvd said:

I don't know if this has been posted before, but any information on the radar on this thing? It looks way bigger than any that come before, way bigger than the last carrier and way bigger than 052D

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What?

The radar is literally the 052D's radar. Like, exactly the same. I think you underestimate how big the 052D's superstructure is.

Richard Santos said:

If the third Chinese carrier really turn out to be <75,000 tons, then I believe that would be because she is still heavily based on kuznetsov design, even if she dispensed with the ski jump and has catapults.

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I believe the 002 will be based on the Kuznetsov's hull, but stretched length-wise by 30~40 meters to accommodate 12 more fighters. It would be the solution of least effort. Operationally, everything would be the same as 001A aside from the method for launching aircraft.

bd popeye said:

Listen up gents from an old salt that actually served on a Nimitz class, 2 Kitty Hawk class, USS Midway and USS Hancock.

The operating plant on a nuclear CVN out performs conventional power any day. The number one area is the just don't break down. Oil fired ships are needy and suffer engineering casualties . Nimitz never broke down once or was never late for any evolution.

Another thing that is important when you have steam fire cats.. Nimitz made 400,000 of gallons of fresh water a day. Well more than enough for the crew and anything else aboard the ship. Except for Kennedy all the other ships I served aboard had difficulty keeping up with the demand for fresh water.

Nuff said..

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Just speculation on my part, but...

Steam outputs from nuke reactor is actually lower than oil fired steam plants due to limitations of materials that can stand up to radiation. So you are comparing a lower pressure plant against older (decades older) plants with higher pressure that did not have more tech developments. Not quite fair. Compare to modern civilian (land) plants with super-critical temp and numerical control, whether nuke are still superior, at least in term of life time cost, is another question. A marine plant probably would not be operated at super-critical temp, but advances in high pressure pipe should increase reliability.

Also do note Hancock (Essex class, I believe?) and Midway predates invention steam catapult, so was not designed with steam catapult in mind. And you do indicate Kennedy did have enough fresh water, so a clean sheet design should not have this issue. And if E/M cats are used, then the issue is moot.

Engineer said:

I believe the 002 will be based on the Kuznetsov's hull, but stretched length-wise by 30~40 meters to accommodate 12 more fighters. It would be the solution of least effort. Operationally, everything would be the same as 001A aside from the method for launching aircraft.

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Is that from big shrimps or are you guessing?

Blackstone said:

Is that from big shrimps or are you guessing?

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He had already stated his opinion or are you not reading?

There was discussion on the possibility of China building 150k flattops. If it did it wouldn't be just one or two. China woudn't set up an ad hoc production organization as UK did for its QE2 ships. So a look at the two building docks will enable a good guess of the maximum size flattop contemplated. Has any one an idea of the largest carrier that can be build in Dalian and whether the building dock in Shanghai has the same size or is larger?