J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

New or newly release image of 2101.

Do we know if 2101 and 2102 are repainted now and are in fact these j-20 with low vis markings we've seen images of?

IMHO, ... ...

In order to maximize J-20 utilization and minimize time of adaptation, PLAAF will be wiser to forgo equipping J-20s onto the elites PLAAF divisions as usual.

So far, there are 39 Golden Helmet Champions spread among many different divisions located all across China.

J-20s shall be assign to all Golden Helmet Champions first and foremost before any other elites PLAAF pilots. ( My apology to J-15 top pilot -- DAI Ming Meng )
Why ?
Because the all out dedications of all Golden Helmet pilots and their willingness to continually push their own performance boundaries.

PLAAF shall begin by giving the first J-20 to the best PLAAF Golden Helmet Pilots -- JIANG Jia Ji and the second J-20 to the next best Golden Helmet Pilots ( perhaps Wang Li or Chen Hong Cheng or Chen Quan Long ), and the 3rd J-20 to the third best, and so on...

PLAAF shall arrange a mini Golden Helmet Confrontational Combat Competitions among all these 30 Golden Helmet pilots, and place them at secret location away from the reach of US preemptive nuclear strike.

GreenestGDP said:

IMHO, ... ...

In order to maximize J-20 utilization and minimize time of adaptation, PLAAF will be wiser to forgo equipping J-20s onto the elites PLAAF divisions as usual.

So far, there are 39 Golden Helmet Champions spread among many different divisions located all across China.

J-20s shall be assign to all Golden Helmet Champions first and foremost before any other elites PLAAF pilots. ( My apology to J-15 top pilot -- DAI Ming Meng )
Why ?
Because the all out dedications of all Golden Helmet pilots and their willingness to continually push their own performance boundaries.

PLAAF shall begin by giving the first J-20 to the best PLAAF Golden Helmet Pilots -- JIANG Jia Ji and the second J-20 to the next best Golden Helmet Pilots ( perhaps Wang Li or Chen Hong Cheng or Chen Quan Long ), and the 3rd J-20 to the third best, and so on...

PLAAF shall arrange a mini Golden Helmet Confrontational Combat Competitions among all these 30 Golden Helmet pilots, and place them at secret location away from the reach of US preemptive nuclear strike.

Click to expand...

You are treating the J-20 like a trophy, giving them to individuals with great achievements and stashing them away so that potential enemies can't get to them. That is a terrible waste of the J-20's potentials.

Don't forget that the J-20 is a weapon that will only be valuable when used in combat. Stashing them away in some far away corners of the country would be such a waste. The J-20 should be deployed to the front line and its pilots should be trained in the J-20 as extensively as possible so that they can maximize its full potentials. This means that they should push the J-20 to its limits, not hiding in some caves and sitting pretty.

Stealth fighters are at their most advantage possess their highest values when used in the first wave with enemy's detection capabilities still fully intact. Thus, the J-20 should be used accordingly. This means the PLAAF should deploy the J-20 to the most dangerous locations in order to maximize the potential of the J-20.

In this day and age, all fighters, and all weapons systems for that matter, have been designed to maximize their capability when used in concerted and integrated manner. A single J-20 in a squadron of J-11B's is almost useless. You've rendered an advanced 5th gen fighter down to the level of a 4th gen. A dedicated new J-20 squadron should be established to develop new tactics for the new fighters so that the J-20 can be used in a completely integrated manner with all other assets that the PLA has.

Again, the J-20 should be used and trained as extensively as possible. This way, the J-20 pilots will possess the necessary experience to fight actual battles.

vesicles said:

You are treating the J-20 like a trophy, giving them to individuals with great achievements and stashing them away so that potential enemies can't get to them. That is a terrible waste of the J-20's potentials.

Don't forget that the J-20 is a weapon that will only be valuable when used in combat. Stashing them away in some far away corners of the country would be such a waste. The J-20 should be deployed to the front line and its pilots should be trained in the J-20 as extensively as possible so that they can maximize its full potentials. This means that they should push the J-20 to its limits, not hiding in some caves and sitting pretty.

Stealth fighters are at their most advantage possess their highest values when used in the first wave with enemy's detection capabilities still fully intact. Thus, the J-20 should be used accordingly. This means the PLAAF should deploy the J-20 to the most dangerous locations in order to maximize the potential of the J-20.

In this day and age, all fighters, and all weapons systems for that matter, have been designed to maximize their capability when used in concerted and integrated manner. A single J-20 in a squadron of J-11B's is almost useless. You've rendered an advanced 5th gen fighter down to the level of a 4th gen. A dedicated new J-20 squadron should be established to develop new tactics for the new fighters so that the J-20 can be used in a completely integrated manner with all other assets that the PLA has.

Again, the J-20 should be used and trained as extensively as possible. This way, the J-20 pilots will possess the necessary experience to fight actual battles.

Click to expand...

I believe that he is suggesting that the Golden Helmet winners will populate the "elite" squadron that will fly the J-20, he is suggesting sequestering that squadron in a very secure location to protect them from us bad guys?? LOL

I say "bring em on!", Heh!, Heh!, Heh! They do seem to "spirit" them away to a more secure location after Chengdu flies off the restrictions??? No, 2101 has not been repainted that we know of??? it could well be 2102, or the first bird of a new batch??

I believe that many assignments to the F-22 were of some our "top-guns", but now many nubes are also flying the F-22 as it is a very easy and intuitive bird to fly. So such is not out of the realm of common sense.

vesicles said:

You are treating the J-20 like a trophy, giving them to individuals with great achievements and stashing them away so that potential enemies can't get to them. That is a terrible waste of the J-20's potentials.

Don't forget that the J-20 is a weapon that will only be valuable when used in combat. Stashing them away in some far away corners of the country would be such a waste. The J-20 should be deployed to the front line and its pilots should be trained in the J-20 as extensively as possible so that they can maximize its full potentials. This means that they should push the J-20 to its limits, not hiding in some caves and sitting pretty.

Stealth fighters are at their most advantage possess their highest values when used in the first wave with enemy's detection capabilities still fully intact. Thus, the J-20 should be used accordingly. This means the PLAAF should deploy the J-20 to the most dangerous locations in order to maximize the potential of the J-20.

In this day and age, all fighters, and all weapons systems for that matter, have been designed to maximize their capability when used in concerted and integrated manner. A single J-20 in a squadron of J-11B's is almost useless. You've rendered an advanced 5th gen fighter down to the level of a 4th gen. A dedicated new J-20 squadron should be established to develop new tactics for the new fighters so that the J-20 can be used in a completely integrated manner with all other assets that the PLA has.

Again, the J-20 should be used and trained as extensively as possible. This way, the J-20 pilots will possess the necessary experience to fight actual battles.

Click to expand...

With all due respect ... ...
I think you have been jumping into the wrong conclusion.
Where did you get that Trophy and Stashing away ideas ?

I think you have misunderstood my post by not reading these keywords / phrases properly (
1) maximize J-20 utilization and minimize time of adaptation ,
2) all out dedications of all Golden Helmet pilots and their willingness to continually push their own performance boundaries ,
3) arrange a mini Golden Helmet Confrontational Combat Competitions among all these 39 Golden Helmet pilots )

... ... I am sure if you properly reread my post, you shall be able to get the meaning behinds those words, and you will wish to withdraw your conclusion of stashing away J-20 as fancy trophy.

There is no question that J-20 shall be fused into the Integrated Command and Integrated Battle assets of PLA.

But, IMHO ... ...
You have already overlooked 3 critical factors ... ...

1) Moral and Motivation for all PLAAF and PLAN pilots, especially those young pilots candidates.

2) Improving and promoting the Sense of Fairness, Justice, and Meritocracy among the rank and file of PLAAF and PLAN.

3) All the best hardwares and machines in the world are useless if the users abilities are average / pedestrian. These same users do not have the obsessive all out dedication to continually push the limit on themselves and push the limit on their hardwares / machines.

===

I hope my recollection below is accurate ... ...

1) Are you aware that the supposedly most elite PLAAF division in Shenyang, who always gets the latest upgrade and the best J-11B aircraft that SAC can offer, ... ... yet, this supposedly elite front line division can only produced 1 Golden Helmet champions using the latest J-11B.

2) Meanwhile, in the far South West, the regular non--elite PLAAF division produce 3 Golden Helmet pilots, and one of them is the undisputed king of Golden Helmet pilots, the 3 time champions ( JIANG Jia Jie ), and all these South West pilots use the outdated J-11A.

Once again, it goes to show that the best machines are useless in the hand of average operators. ~




MODERATOR ACTION Deleted inflammatory and factual inaccurate comment. Completely uneeded. Any more of this will result in a warning and then suspension


Now, back to the J-20 topic ... ...

GreenestGDP said:

With all due respect ... ...
I think you have been jumping into the wrong conclusion.
Where did you get that Trophy and Stashing away ideas ?

I think you have misunderstood my post by not reading these keywords / phrases properly (
1) maximize J-20 utilization and minimize time of adaptation ,
2) all out dedications of all Golden Helmet pilots and their willingness to continually push their own performance boundaries ,
3) arrange a mini Golden Helmet Confrontational Combat Competitions among all these 39 Golden Helmet pilots )

... ... I am sure if you properly reread my post, you shall be able to get the meaning behinds those words, and you will wish to withdraw your conclusion of stashing away J-20 as fancy trophy.

There is no question that J-20 shall be fused into the Integrated Command and Integrated Battle assets of PLA.

But, IMHO ... ...
You have already overlooked 3 critical factors ... ...

1) Moral and Motivation for all PLAAF and PLAN pilots, especially those young pilots candidates.

2) Improving and promoting the Sense of Fairness, Justice, and Meritocracy among the rank and file of PLAAF and PLAN.

3) All the best hardwares and machines in the world are useless if the users abilities are average / pedestrian. These same users do not have the obsessive all out dedication to continually push the limit on themselves and push the limit on their hardwares / machines.

===

I hope my recollection below is accurate ... ...

1) Are you aware that the supposedly most elite PLAAF division in Shenyang, who always gets the latest upgrade and the best J-11B aircraft that SAC can offer, ... ... yet, this supposedly elite front line division can only produced 1 Golden Helmet champions using the latest J-11B.

2) Meanwhile, in the far South West, the regular non--elite PLAAF division produce 3 Golden Helmet pilots, and one of them is the undisputed king of Golden Helmet pilots, the 3 time champions ( JIANG Jia Jie ), and all these South West pilots use the outdated J-11A.

Once again, it goes to show that the best machines are useless in the hand of average operators. ~


Now, back to the J-20 topic ... ...

Click to expand...

The Golden Helmet exercises are a useful training tool, but don't buy into the hype and believe that the pilots who win it are somehow head and shoulders above everyone else, especially seeing as we do not know the various rules of engagement in which they won their achievements.

If they really are that good then it would be actually far more sensible to make the golden helmet winners become instructors, to allow them to share their knowledge and expertise among new pilots so the whole air force can instead increase its overall proficiency, instead of trying to create some sort of nonsensical "dream team" of "best pilots" who have won golden helmets with the air force's "best fighters".

Air Force Brat said:

I believe that many assignments to the F-22 were of some our "top-guns", but now many nubes are also flying the F-22 as it is a very easy and intuitive bird to fly. So such is not out of the realm of common sense.

Click to expand...

I recently watched a long video of a pilot explaining what was it like to transition from a 4th gen to 5th gen. platform. This pilot had flown extensively the F-18's, a top gun, an experienced F-22 pilot and then on to the F-35. His main points were :
(a) 4th and 5th gen platforms are totally different experience and transformational
(b) There was a clear disadvantage going in with 4th gen. experience because it was baggage.
(c)There was substantial relearning on how to fly and apply tactics because 5th gen capabilities bring totally different dimension and capabilities to the fight.
(d)The experience was shock, disorientation, and depression during the transition phase. It was shock because the experience was totally different. Disorientation because applying 4th gen tactics were counter productive and depression when you get your ass kicked by less experience pilot which went into the program without the 4th gen baggage.
Having said that, the main caveat that brought this transformational experience was not the stealth but the sensor fusion of the F-35. As we don't know what capabilities the J-20 have it may not be entirely relevant.

This is exciting development