China Warns U.S. Not to Sell Fighters To Taiwan

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
China Warns U.S. Not to Sell Fighters To Taiwan
AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Mon, 24 Jul 2006, 00:33


Beijing has warned Washington not to proceed with a reported deal to sell fighterss to Taiwan, indicating it would impact on regional security and harm Sino-U.S. relations, state media said on July 21.

”The Chinese side has taken note of the report and lodged serious representations to the United States,” China’s foreign ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao was quoted as saying by the official Xinhua news agency.

The China Times reported on July 17 that a Taiwanese delegation had proposed the procurement of 66 advanced fighter planes during an annual military meeting with Washington early this month.

If the report is confirmed, it would be the biggest arms deal Washington has offered Taiwan since 2001 when U.S. President George W. Bush agreed to provide the island with eight diesel-powered submarines, 12 P-3C submarine-hunting aircraft and an improved version of Patriot missiles, the paper said.

Taiwan’s defense ministry has declined comment on the report.
The new fleet of F-16C/D fighters aim to reinforce the air force’s combat capability before it can acquire so-called “third generation” fighters from the United States, the paper said.

The United States in 1992 agreed to sell Taiwan 150 less sophisticated F-16A/Bs, but refused to provide F-16C/Ds which have a longer range and powerful ground attack capability.

In addition to 146 F-16A/B fighters, the air force has 128 locally produced Indigenous Defense Fighters and 56 French-made Mirage 2000-5s, along with 60 or so aging F-5 Tigers.

Taiwanese President Chen Shui-bian has pledged gradually to increase military spending to around three percent of gross domestic product, up from the current 2.5 percent.

China has repeatedly threatened to invade Taiwan should it move towards formal independence, prompting the island to seek more advanced weaponry.

China announced in March its military budget for this year would rise 14.7 percent to $35 billion, the latest in a series of double-digit annual increases dating back to the early 1990s.

A Pentagon report last year estimated that China’s defense spending was two to three times the publicly announced figure and that the cross-strait military balance was tipping in Beijing’s favor.

Bush met briefly in Washington on July 20 with China’s top military officer and highlighted Sino-U.S. cooperation on issues like North Korea and military matters, the White House said.

General Guo Boxiong was visiting the United States as part of a US-Chinese effort to expand cooperation between their militaries.



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So, it looks like once again China is attempting to thwart taiwans plans to get some new weapons. im not sure if the u.s will listen 100%, but it might force a compromise
 

Violet Oboe

Junior Member
Sometimes chinese foreign policy strategists seem to learn their lesson quite late and unreflected. China gave in to massive pressure of US and their proxy Japan regarding the ´North Korea Missilecrisis´ (watching bad cop Japan and good cop US was really hilarious!:roll: ). In effect China prevented a chapter VII resolution but what came through is bad enough since US and Japan will use this for stepping up the pressure if only the next suitable strategic situation will occur. The US strategy consists of picking up every gain they could achieve and relentlessly pressing on from this point. China plays the game defensively and the US is steady on the offense.

Resulting from Chinas passive moves US is now emboldened enough to set the stage for a new Taiwan gambit. Beijing can only hope that Taipei legislative yuan remains paralyzed between Guomindang and Minjidang. Possibly Chen and the Bush administration will try to cut down the multibillion chunks of the packets to smaller pieces which could be far more easily financed by Chens ´pro independence´ government.

At the moment i am baffled about how docile China remains in the face of reckless attacks on Chinas integral interests, they simply must realize how agressively US is implementing their plan of confronting and eventually containing China. Maybe those bureaucrats should take some lessons in the ancient game of Weiqi (Go in jap.) and they would know that regardless how masterfully you play in the defensive you will pay for being too passive and lose inevitably in the endgame.
 

yoda9999

New Member
I don't think its a big deal. China should be glad Taiwan is a democracy, so that means KMT will have a chance to be back in power. If Taiwan and China reunite, does China get to keep the F-16's? :D
 

akinkhoo

Junior Member
Violet Oboe said:
China gave in to massive pressure of US and their proxy Japan regarding the ´North Korea Missilecrisis´
considering china is planning to add an additional offensive heavy corp with around 500 tanks backed by helicopter and artillery support on the bordering region, i don't think china is really a big supporter of north korea as many assumed. china's stance is mirrored quite closely to south korea, these 2 countries are really trying to keep the issue a local one between them without allowing north korea to getting away with doing anything it wants.

Violet Oboe said:
At the moment i am baffled about how docile China remains in the face of reckless attacks on Chinas integral interests, they simply must realize how agressively US is implementing their plan of confronting and eventually containing China.
China doesn't want to deal with anything that can create possible create internal issues when riots are still high in the countryside (support for the communist state has been dropping due to earning different between the different part of the country). having taiwan gives it an excuse to modernization of PLA with the people's supported while rural development is still poor. another words, China doesn't want to solve these issues until it can solve it's internal ones. both China and US are therefore after status quo on taiwan for the time being. :eek:

anyway, Chen has already dug it's own grave... now even DPP ignores him to the level that he couldn't even dare show his face in major party event :D . in the US and China, both countries allow KMT's Ma freedom to make visits while giving no-entry to Chen. Ma has impressed all with his more "status quo" stance (slightly pro-unify; but that could be just to get the prounity votes since he doesn't promise anything... a very cautious man.)

as for containment; it requires China's neighbour to see China as a threat (which they will anyway as china grew stronger). China cannot counter this aggressively because it will generate more foe and it doesn't have the amount of political chip to outbuy US in asia neither. but China isn't holding back, just that the moves are not well known. China still has the silk road (SCO) and a larger alliance is forming along the route all the way into saudi arabia which sees China's as a good counterweight against US influence (which demands democracy and such) in middle east.

my guess is in east asia, north korea will be the main focus, not taiwan (which KMT will still be able to maintain status quo with support from both sides). many analyst think the missile launch was made to bring back world attention (whether good or bad) because north korea is nearing it's limit and running out of time...

does China get to keep the F-16's?
they might wouldn't they? or maybe they will tear it apart down to the ground and send it back via DHL like the spy planes... :D
 
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Violet Oboe

Junior Member
China cannot prioritize internal problems any longer like it was feasible from 1978 until ca. 1995 simply because her economy must get unimpeded access to oversea markets and resources (esp. oil, gas and rawmaterials).
Like this fact or not: Chinas interests are spreaded globaly and these interests have to be defended circumspect but decisively. :nono:
Correspondingly every ´clever´ strategy for cementing CPC power will fail if US will choke off Chinas supply of hydrocarbons! US knows that wrecking havoc on Chinas economy will instigate disturbances in the poor segments of her huge population and CPC power will soon be finished.
Albeit in my assessment not by rioting peasants but by PLA/PAP/MPS generals who will make a last ditch effort to save their great country where CPC has drastically failed by then. PLA saved CPC power more than one time (you know these´incidents´) but should this ´situation´ occur once more PLA brass could decide that they have paid their ´dues´ once and for all time. :D
 
D

Deleted member 675

Guest
MIGleader said:
im not sure if the u.s will listen 100%, but it might force a compromise

I'm not exactly sure how Washington could do that. Either it is going to sell the planes or it's not.

This is just a PR exercise. China knows the US won't stop the sale because it complains, but it has to be seen to be "doing something". If the US wants to sell, then it will sell.

yoda9999 said:
If Taiwan and China reunite, does China get to keep the F-16's? :D

If there was unification, Taiwan would probably keep its own armed forces, even if they were in reduced numbers.
 

renmin

Junior Member
akinkhoo said:
considering china is planning to add an additional offensive heavy corp with around 500 tanks backed by helicopter and artillery support on the bordering region, i don't think china is really a big supporter of north korea as many assumed. china's stance is mirrored quite closely to south korea, these 2 countries are really trying to keep the issue a local one between them without allowing north korea to getting away with doing anything it wants.

China doesn't want to deal with anything that can create possible create internal issues when riots are still high in the countryside (support for the communist state has been dropping due to earning different between the different part of the country). having taiwan gives it an excuse to modernization of PLA with the people's supported while rural development is still poor. another words, China doesn't want to solve these issues until it can solve it's internal ones. both China and US are therefore after status quo on taiwan for the time being. :eek:

anyway, Chen has already dug it's own grave... now even DPP ignores him to the level that he couldn't even dare show his face in major party event :D . in the US and China, both countries allow KMT's Ma freedom to make visits while giving no-entry to Chen. Ma has impressed all with his more "status quo" stance (slightly pro-unify; but that could be just to get the prounity votes since he doesn't promise anything... a very cautious man.)

as for containment; it requires China's neighbour to see China as a threat (which they will anyway as china grew stronger). China cannot counter this aggressively because it will generate more foe and it doesn't have the amount of political chip to outbuy US in asia neither. but China isn't holding back, just that the moves are not well known. China still has the silk road (SCO) and a larger alliance is forming along the route all the way into saudi arabia which sees China's as a good counterweight against US influence (which demands democracy and such) in middle east.

my guess is in east asia, north korea will be the main focus, not taiwan (which KMT will still be able to maintain status quo with support from both sides). many analyst think the missile launch was made to bring back world attention (whether good or bad) because north korea is nearing it's limit and running out of time...

they might wouldn't they? or maybe they will tear it apart down to the ground and send it back via DHL like the spy planes... :D
North korea is actually more important to China than most people think. China knows that if some crisis comes up between US and PRC, The best stratagy for America is to move up from South Korea and the only thing blocking their advancment is North korea. As for those spy planes shot down in the 50s, they are still in China. I saw them on my last visit. They look like balistic missiles. The UAV was actually rebuilt, it is in great condition, there are other western planes in the same place that look more like scrap metal.
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
I'm not exactly sure how Washington could do that. Either it is going to sell the planes or it's not.

This is just a PR exercise. China knows the US won't stop the sale because it complains, but it has to be seen to be "doing something". If the US wants to sell, then it will sell.

compromise? of course theres ways to compromise, such as force a reduction in the number of planes purchased, degrade the planes bought. Personally, Id advise chen to buy more AMRAAMs before thinking about f-16s, but its up to him.

If there was unification, Taiwan would probably keep its own armed forces, even if they were in reduced numbers.

after reuninfication, all of taiwans military assets would technically be chinas, but this is a china including taiwan. Im sure certain things such as the kidd might get a hard look by mainland scientists, but the f-16s taiwans ordering dont have too much cutting edge.
 
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D

Deleted member 675

Guest
MIGleader said:
compromise? of course theres ways to compromise, such as force a reduction in the number of planes purchased, degrade the planes bought. Personally, Id advise chen to buy more AMRAAMs before thinking about f-16s, but its up to him.

Taiwan already has Block A/B jets. The reason it wants C/D block is for the increased capability. It would rather defeat the purpose of the order if it could only get more of what it has already. Also I can't see how numbers could be reduced to the point where Taiwan would still want them and Beijing would be happy.

Besides, Washington would have known China was going to object. It wouldn't have authorised the sale in the first place if it was concerned about what Beijing thought.

I actually asked about missiles on another board and someone said they were confident there would be more sold as part of the new order. Perhaps more info will be released in the future as to numbers and specific type.

after reuninfication, all of taiwans military assets would technically be chinas, but this is a china including taiwan. Im sure certain things such as the kidd might get a hard look by mainland scientists, but the f-16s taiwans ordering dont have too much cutting edge.

It would rather depend on the terms of unification. It may well be that it's a "technical" unification to save face for Beijing, rather than anything huge changing in areas other than trade/immigration. In which case China wouldn't be able to have an inspection detailed enough to learn anything useful.
 
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Violet Oboe

Junior Member
Renmin, your stipulation that North Korea is strategically more important for China than most informed people think is entirely correct. NK partially neutralises US forces in SK which would be directed against China in case of any conflict in Taiwanstrait. Also Japan is deflected from entering any conflict with China while Tokyo has to worry about Kim Jong Ils moves.

The*******american media often cry wolf about China to pressure bad boy Kim regarding his nuke and missile program but these geniusses fail to perceive that US simultaneously sells weapons to splittist forces on Taiwan. China has absolutely no interest im helping US regarding NK while there no quid pro quo deal comes up about Taiwan.

Name calling is not necessary

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