Brother of Ling Jihua Reveals China's nuclear launch code and top secrets to US

weig2000

Captain
The news of the information that Mr Li could have released were first reported by a few smalltime media outlets back in December last year. The original sources appeared to be the Chenming and Qianshao magazines.

At this point it is pretty obvious that Mr Li probably does have some state secrets, but having followed the story for the last two months I haven't actually seen anyone credible state what the actual contents of the secrets could include -- nuclear launch procedures, Zhongnanhai security, have been consistently mentioned but I'm a little dubious as to whether these bigger media outlets have done sufficient fact checking in regards to Chenming and Qianshao's original claims.


Remember, Chenming and Qianshao are both anti CCP magazines -- how they would have access to such classified information such as the details of the documents is a mystery to me...

That's my assessment too after following the news for a few months now.

A lot of stuff that have been revealed or could have been in those documents are probably stuffs that Chinese government should make public or be more transparent about in the first place.

Nuclear launch procedure? Well, the US or other nuclear powers probably wouldn't find it too surprising if they know China's nuclear launch procedure. In fact, I would say to increase strategic stability, nuclear powers should at least disclose their respective procedures and processes to each other at high level without going into too much details. And details can be changed or modified if they're leaked.

The map and layout of Zhongnanhai compound where Chinese leadership reside. I don't know why this should be a state secret. We all know where the US President lives, as well as many foreign leaders. In the '80, the Zhongnanhai compound were selectively open to the public, just like White House is. I had taken a tour of the compound back then and visited some of the places and rooms where former Chinese leaders used to live. I think they should open the place again to the public. So now the CIA knows where Xi Jinping lives within Zhongnanhai, big deal.

And what about the high-level power struggle and relationships among the Chinese leaders? Is it going to be damaging to the PRC if these were disclosed in the documents? In a normal society, a lot of these information are easy to get or at least pretty transparent. Once in a while, you have some high-level retired government officials writing memoirs of their own disclosing the inner workings or scandals within the government. Chinese politics is a lot more opaque; Chinese public only get to know the internal politics after a long time or when leaders pass away. It's good if someone can disclose some dirty laundries of the Chinese Communist Party high-ranking officials. It's actually good for China.

China's financial strategy? At the strategy level, China's financial and RMB policies are pretty obvious. Maybe some Chinese foreign investment or exchange reserves information were exposed. Is it such a big damage?

I just don't see much of really valuable intelligence in this case are compromised. Truth is, a lot of information that are considered "secret" by CCP and Chinese government should really be made public to begin with in a normal society.

I also doubt, although without concrete evidence, that Ling Jihua were carefully in selecting what kind of documents he wanted Ling Wancheng to take out in order to bargain for his safety and punishment. It would be more political and personnel in nature than national security in nature, which will be damaging to certain power-to-be in China, but not necessarily to be considered as treason to the nation, because in that case, no one say save Ling Jihua. Besides, as critical as Ling's position is, he doesn't have easy access to detailed national security information.

All in all, I think the media is trying to make a mountain out of molehills. Some embarrassing information leaked? Definitely. A huge compromise in national security? Highly doubt it.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
If this guy held on to this information as an insurance policy, then it didn't work. Just go by China's reputation. Like this scheme was going to protect this guy? Which doesn't remove the possibility it was false information that was passed just to play both sides. Two years vetting the information could easily also mean they found out it was worthless and why this is being released to the public. Right now he's just a propaganda puppet for Americans feeling like they got a win. It really comes down to why would the US government allow this information to go public when China can easily make this information worthless when found out?

Because they are still but hurt by Edward Snowden and still threaten by Julian Assange cases. They have to feel they got something just as good therefore are not inept or incompetent to get more funding.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I only see an indirect connection to the lack of good governance to this case. Yes if society as a whole matured in their own ethics and morals, yes, that might an effect on this, but plain and simple the guy was corrupt and stupid because what was a prison sentence is now a death sentence. Treason is punishable by
Because they are still but hurt by Edward Snowden and still threaten by Julian Assange cases. They have to feel they got something just as good therefore are not inept or incompetent to get more funding.

Yes the article was really more for American audiences. They needed a "win" after the constant stories on how China stole this or stole that. That's the problem when you're trying to constantly make yourself out to be the victim. People start wondering why has the government done nothing? That translates as the government is ineffective and people might want to change the status quo. Same thing happening regarding Trump and Sanders. The two are only promoting what their parties have been peddling for decades just to get votes but never followed through. Now the chickens are coming home to roost.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
We don't know what kind of documents he had against top tier politicians in PRC and surely it won't be made public in PRC. The PRC Politburo has all the rule over Chinese judicial system and they made things happen very fast for him without making it public in any way when they found out and arrested him. He's got nothing to defend against it. All the documents won't be taken under investigation. He had it prepared for political game within the Party and he must have strong ones as he was still remaining at the top after Xi's group took over. There are people at the top who want to keep it quiet. And it will be quiet in China. What about other part of documents about PRC national security? Those wern't made for internal fights. He kept that as the last way to defend himself and probably when PRC's tops knew that his brother made a contact with Americans they knew it was a lost game and gave them up doing as much damage control as they could (arresting him).Sure, and they're now going to execute one of the PRC's top politician because it was 'false information'... Get real.US won it big time. Stop downplaying it. Where did you get those 2 years? And they kept this guy for some kind of joke until US relesed the informations about his brother? You can talk like that everyday to yourself and live in delusion that's worthless but it's a major success for US intelligence getting their hands over real, top secret informations. They surely took some of that for expertise testings before the deal with his brother was made and it turned as worth it's price.With all respect, but Snowden is zero compared to Ling Jihua.
1. The US got mid 2012 (and earlier) documents in late 2015.
2. China knowingly caused those documents to be released (by arresting Ling, they knew those documents would be released).
3. In China, just the intention to threaten the PRC with security leak is more than 100% enough to land anyone in any amount of trouble, regardless of the outcome.
4. The US decided to make the ordeal public information, including at least some of the contents of the documents.
Those are the facts. How severe the breach is anyone's guess, but guess based on those facts.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I sorry mace and Equation but I think you're spinning up the wrong tree.
Remember Australian media had the story back in December it did not hit US news outlets until 2-3 Days ago, if anything that indicates it might have hushed in the US, on the time issue consider that 2-3 days ago was the first of the primaries for the US Election cycle. If they wanted to release a feel good story the politicians would have tried to get the front page before the Primary so to form and manipulate a connection to their party line. But by releasing it the time it went to print it takes a page one and makes it page 9. If this was a counter Snowden move it was poorly designed.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I sorry mace and Equation but I think you're spinning up the wrong tree.
Remember Australian media had the story back in December it did not hit US news outlets until 2-3 Days ago, if anything that indicates it might have hushed in the US, on the time issue consider that 2-3 days ago was the first of the primaries for the US Election cycle.

I want to repeat, that from my understanding, it was originally Hong Kong magazines which reported the details (which have now been circulated), before a couple minor Australian, UK and even one NZ newspaper reported it.

The fact that it took almost a month for some US media outlets to report it could be due to anything, from the reporters doing some fact checking and or maybe they simply didn't pick up on the original HK magazine articles until recently.


I also don't think equation or A Mace are saying the US is using this case as a means of directly countering the Snowden leaks, but I think they are saying that publicizing the case could be a way for promoting a sense of accomplishment and/or victory by having achieved something. But Equation and A-Mace's hypothesis would really depend on how important or how accurate the supposed leaked details actually are in relation to any weaknesses they could have prompted.

Because the more that I think about it, the more that I believe it would make sense for the US to restrict the fact that they could have knowledge of the supposed details (nuclear launch procedures, ZNH security, etc) as much as possible so as to gain as much of a practical real world advantage for as long as it would last. Leaking the notion that they have those supposed details would be a very counterintuitive move, if they really did have those details.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Yeah I don't see how it being reported in Australia first changes things. The guy was living in Sacramento California and US intelligence agencies are protecting him supposedly. Janiz brought up Snowden. The Snowden angle is just an opportunity to use this to brag as Janiz believes a big win for US intelligence. Bigger than Edward Snowden? I think not since they're saying Edward Snowden exposing secrets resulted directly in deaths. Maybe they were exaggerating or fibbing on that one. Yeah just like the value of intelligence they supposedly received here. Because again why would this information be released if there were anything valuable in order to protect its value. Putting out this story would be one way to salvage a big waste of time.
 

Janiz

Senior Member
1. The US got mid 2012 (and earlier) documents in late 2015.
The investigation for Ling's relatives started in mid 2014. Ling Wancheng 'disappeared' in October 2014 in US. By 'disappearing' we should assume that he went under full FBI protection program at the time. This means that whatever documents he had were valuable, double checked and verified by that time. This means that he started his contacts with US services way earlier (mid 2014 probably?). Many documents might have been much more fresh than 2012 (what's with that assumption that they magically stopped collecting those in 2012?).
2. China knowingly caused those documents to be released (by arresting Ling, they knew those documents would be released).
It's a big assumption not backed by any facts.
4. The US decided to make the ordeal public information, including at least some of the contents of the documents.
No contents of the documents have been released. We only know about what a portion of those were. And that's a nice collection of top secret documents about PRC national security matters. The services 'leaked' the information about Ling Wancheng to the public after more than a year since it happened.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
From China's perspective, I think they would have reviewed every single document ever held or accessible by Ling Jihua's office, and assumed that they have all been compromised.
 
Top