Chinese purchase of Su-35

A

AeroEngineer

Junior Member
Damn it !!!!

I am WRONG AGAIN !!!!

China did NOT sign any deal with Russia when Xi JingPing visit Russia. lol

Only Oil, Gas and Rabbit deal.

lol

:D


But look it this way.

So much has changed !!!

Before, Russia will not even think of selling China its best weapons. Now Russia is urging lol, I mean urging China to buy them !!

Su-35 is NOT bad, it is Russia's best fighter much better than india's SU-30MKI !!!

If, I mean if China does decide to buy some Su-35. China will have 117S engine and J-20 will reach IOC 4 years ahead of schedual !!

Maybe, now just maybe China thinks that WS-15 is progressing well or that WS-10A is good enough and J-20A will not need 117S ???

That is why the deal is NOT happening ?

Anyway, lets wait for a bit longer to find out what happen.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Putin will visit China very soon in the next few month, and if the Su-35 deal is NOT signed by then. It is OVER !!!
 
Last edited:
vesicles

vesicles

Colonel
AeroEngineer said:
Damn it !!!!

I am WRONG AGAIN !!!!

China did NOT sign any deal with Russia when Xi JingPing visit Russia. lol

Only Oil, Gas and Rabbit deal.

lol

:D


But look it this way.

So much has changed !!!

Before, Russia will not even think of selling China its best weapons. Now Russia is urging lol, I mean urging China to buy them !!

Su-35 is NOT bad, it is Russia's best fighter much better than india's SU-30MKI !!!

If, I mean if China does decide to buy some Su-35. China will have 117S engine and J-20 will reach IOC 4 years ahead of schedual !!

Maybe, now just maybe China thinks that WS-15 is progressing well or that WS-10A is good enough and J-20A will not need 117S ???

That is why the deal is NOT happening ?

Anyway, lets wait for a bit longer to find out what happen.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Putin will visit China very soon in the next few month, and if the Su-35 deal is NOT signed by then. It is OVER !!!
Click to expand...

The whole idea of China buying Su-35 comes from the notion that the Chinese need Su-35 to supplement their lack of whatever Su-35 can potentially provide, be it engines, etc. These people do not understand Chinese way of thinking. Chinese emphasize self-reliance and hate (and I mean, absolutely hate) the idea that they have to depend on someone else for anything. That would mean putting your fate in someone else's hands. That is absolutely unthinkable to Chinese. Why, then, the Chinese imported so many Russian weapons and western technology? Simple, they knew that they fell behind way too much and needed some kind of catalyst to jump-start their own programs. So the purpose of all the initial imports was not simply to have some weapons, but to learn the technology behind them. They knew they were not in any immediately danger of being attacked. So they were not in a hurry to have those weapon systems. What was absolutely urgent to them was to improve their weapons development programs so that one day they can develop their own domestic weapons. That was their #1, #2 and #3 priorities. Once they believed they had learned all the fundamental stuff, they stopped importing. Even though what they had back then in 2004 was not top notch yet and they could still buy even more advanced weapons, they knew that they had to work it out on their own. They believe, rightfully so, that going through the growing pains and climbing the painful learning curve are not only healthy, but also necessary and even essential for the healthy development of their own domestic technology programs.

So yes, it might take them a few more years to work out the kinks of J-20, Liaoning, etc. But their goal is not simply to have a stealth fighter and a carrier. They want to OWN the technology behind these systems so that they will one day lead the world in weapons development and weapons technology. And there is no shortcut in owning science and technology. you have to go through the pain. They know that and they are going through it as we speak. The notion that they might buy a few planes as a shortcut is simply against their philosophy.
 
SteelBird

SteelBird

Colonel
AeroEngineer said:
Su-35 is NOT bad, it is Russia's best fighter much better than india's SU-30MKI !!!
Click to expand...

But it is NOT good enough to be inducted by the PLA. Some advanced Chinese netizens also suggests that China will buy Su-35; however, my suggestion is "sit back and wait". It won't be too long to prove if the deal is true or fake.
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
Re: china purchase su35?

s002wjh said:
just saw this wasn't sure its rumor or not. there are those who says, puchase of su35 will provide j20 117 engine technology

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There is zero chance of that happening considering the WS-15 project is in advance development stage and is superior to the 117. Buying 117 would serve no purpose other than to literally shower Russia with money. I think that's the reason why people in Russian aerospace industry are consistently having wet dreams over China purchasing 117 engines.
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
s002wjh said:
well there always been rumor that 117s can be used on j20 to spearhead schedule of j20. 4billion is not a big price to pay If means j20 ahead schedule by 3-4yr.
Click to expand...
This is total nonsense. Firstly, it is because you portrayed 4 billions as if it is not money. Secondly, it is because 4 billions could better serve in boosting domestic gas turbine technologies than to be given away to Russia.

s002wjh said:
117s also give valueable tech cap for china, we all know china lack engine tech compare to west.
Click to expand...
117s will not give anything. No engine can. The key to jet engine is material science, gained via trial-and-error and cannot be obtained through studying another engine.
 
S

Schumacher

Senior Member
Lion said:
Sorry to burst your bubble.... China is going to get Rabbit from Russia , no Su-35 or 117S engine. LOLz.
...................
Click to expand...

Rabbit stew >>> Su35s. :)
Good choice, they can cook rabbit stew for PLA soldiers, I don't know what use they would have for Su35s.

And to those still day-dreaming that PLA needs 117S, they brought those to Zhuhai last year begging for sales but PLA showed no interests.
 
L

Lion

Senior Member
Schumacher said:
Rabbit stew >>> Su35s. :)
Good choice, they can cook rabbit stew for PLA soldiers, I don't know what use they would have for Su35s.

And to those still day-dreaming that PLA needs 117S, they brought those to Zhuhai last year begging for sales but PLA showed no interests.
Click to expand...

I heard rabbit is good for pilot for pulling high-G. :D

That is why China needs to import of this exotic rabbit from Russia to help boast J-20 and J-31 program. Imagine those J-20 pilot is able to pull 10G after eating those stew rabbit compare to American or Russian counterpart of 9G only.. LOLz.
 
D

delft

Brigadier
vesicles said:
The whole idea of China buying Su-35 comes from the notion that the Chinese need Su-35 to supplement their lack of whatever Su-35 can potentially provide, be it engines, etc. These people do not understand Chinese way of thinking. Chinese emphasize self-reliance and hate (and I mean, absolutely hate) the idea that they have to depend on someone else for anything. That would mean putting your fate in someone else's hands. That is absolutely unthinkable to Chinese. Why, then, the Chinese imported so many Russian weapons and western technology? Simple, they knew that they fell behind way too much and needed some kind of catalyst to jump-start their own programs. So the purpose of all the initial imports was not simply to have some weapons, but to learn the technology behind them. They knew they were not in any immediately danger of being attacked. So they were not in a hurry to have those weapon systems. What was absolutely urgent to them was to improve their weapons development programs so that one day they can develop their own domestic weapons. That was their #1, #2 and #3 priorities. Once they believed they had learned all the fundamental stuff, they stopped importing. Even though what they had back then in 2004 was not top notch yet and they could still buy even more advanced weapons, they knew that they had to work it out on their own. They believe, rightfully so, that going through the growing pains and climbing the painful learning curve are not only healthy, but also necessary and even essential for the healthy development of their own domestic technology programs.

So yes, it might take them a few more years to work out the kinks of J-20, Liaoning, etc. But their goal is not simply to have a stealth fighter and a carrier. They want to OWN the technology behind these systems so that they will one day lead the world in weapons development and weapons technology. And there is no shortcut in owning science and technology. you have to go through the pain. They know that and they are going through it as we speak. The notion that they might buy a few planes as a shortcut is simply against their philosophy.
Click to expand...
They also have the numbers of scientists and engineers for the military as well as the civilian projects. The US is greatly dependent on immigrant scientists and engineers, attracting them with some of the best universities in the world but they're also changing their attitude to keeping them in the US. With an economy slowly growing thanks to immense money creation by the Fed and expected ( by the OECD ! ) to be overtaken as the largest in the world by China in 2016, the US is likely to loose its preeminence in science and engineering to China too.
 
A

ahadicow

Junior Member
delft said:
They also have the numbers of scientists and engineers for the military as well as the civilian projects. The US is greatly dependent on immigrant scientists and engineers, attracting them with some of the best universities in the world but they're also changing their attitude to keeping them in the US. With an economy slowly growing thanks to immense money creation by the Fed and expected ( by the OECD ! ) to be overtaken as the largest in the world by China in 2016, the US is likely to loose its preeminence in science and engineering to China too.
Click to expand...

Not sure that would happen. The attraction of US to creative minds are not just in the money. It's also in the acadamic freedom and free competition between ideas. China has a long way to go in building that kind of research environment. Chinese education and academia is a closed system tightly controled by the CCP and the Department of Education. To rise up in ranks in Chinese acadamic world is a matter of making correct connections and keep your acadamic interest closely aligned to state interest. China has enough talents in its own population as it is and their universities are well-funded. The reason China had not made much progress in science(comparing to its economy) is a combined result of conservative culture, deadlock acadamic bureaucracy and lack of investment to fundamental science.
 
C

clone7803

New Member
ahadicow said:
Not sure that would happen. The attraction of US to creative minds are not just in the money. It's also in the acadamic freedom and free competition between ideas. China has a long way to go in building that kind of research environment. Chinese education and academia is a closed system tightly controled by the CCP and the Department of Education. To rise up in ranks in Chinese acadamic world is a matter of making correct connections and keep your acadamic interest closely aligned to state interest. China has enough talents in its own population as it is and their universities are well-funded. The reason China had not made much progress in science(comparing to its economy) is a combined result of conservative culture, deadlock acadamic bureaucracy and lack of investment to fundamental science.
Click to expand...

I slightly changed a little bit of your comments and found it's interesting,of course it's for fun only.
Not sure that would happen. The attractions of China to creative money are not just in the mind. It's also in the goverment policy and free competition between ideas. The US has a long way to go in re-building its bankruppt economy. The US economy is a closed system tightly controled by the Jews and the Department of Defence. To rise up the US economy is a matter of making correct connections with the Jew bankers and keep your interest closely aligned to the army interest. The US has enough talents in its own population as it is and the dollar is over-printed. The reason the US had not made much progress in economy(comparing to its NBA game) is a combined result of conservative banker culture, deadlock economic bureaucracy and lack of investment to fundamental infrastructure.
 
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