Is War Coming to Iran?

delft

Brigadier
This is an article from today's Sunday Telegraph by its defense expert:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Armada of British naval power massing in the Gulf as Israel prepares an Iran strike
An armada of US and British naval power is massing in the Persian Gulf in the belief that Israel is considering a pre-emptive strike against Iran’s covert nuclear weapons programme.

By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent 10:00PM BST 15 Sep 2012

Battleships, aircraft carriers, minesweepers and submarines from 25 nations are converging on the strategically important Strait of Hormuz in an unprecedented show of force as Israel and Iran move towards the brink of war.
Western leaders are convinced that Iran will retaliate to any attack by attempting to mine or blockade the shipping lane through which passes around 18 million barrels of oil every day, approximately 35 per cent of the world’s petroleum traded by sea.
A blockade would have a catastrophic effect on the fragile economies of Britain, Europe the United States and Japan, all of which rely heavily on oil and gas supplies from the Gulf.
The Strait of Hormuz is one of the world’s most congested international waterways. It is only 21 miles wide at its narrowest point and is bordered by the Iranian coast to the north and the United Arab Emirates to the south.
In preparation for any pre-emptive or retaliatory action by Iran, warships from more than 25 countries, including the United States, Britain, France, Saudi Arabia and the UAE, will today begin an annual 12-day exercise.

The war games are the largest ever undertaken in the region.
They will practise tactics in how to breach an Iranian blockade of the strait and the force will also undertake counter-mining drills.
The multi-national naval force in the Gulf includes three US Nimitz class carrier groups, each of which has more aircraft than the entire complement of the Iranian air force.
The carriers are supported by at least 12 battleships, including ballistic missile cruisers, frigates, destroyers and assault ships carrying thousand of US Marines and special forces.
The British component consists of four British minesweepers and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary Cardigan Bay, a logistics vessel. HMS Diamond, a brand-new £1billion Type 45 destroyer, one of the most powerful ships in the British fleet, will also be operating in the region.

In addition, commanders will also simulate destroying Iranian combat jets, ships and coastal missile batteries.
In the event of war, the main threat to the multi-national force will come from the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps navy, which is expected to adopt an “access-denial” strategy in the wake of an attack, by directly targeting US warships, attacking merchant shipping and mining vital maritime chokepoints in the Persian Gulf.
Defence sources say that although Iran’s capability may not be technologically sophisticated, it could deliver a series of lethal blows against British and US ships using mini-subs, fast attack boats, mines and shore-based anti-ship missile batteries.
Next month, Iran will stage massive military manoeuvres of its own, to show that it is prepared to defend its nuclear installations against the threat of aerial bombardment.
The exercise is being showcased as the biggest air defence war game in the Islamic Republic’s history, and will be its most visible response yet to the prospect of an Israeli military strike.
Using surface-to-air missiles, unmanned drones and state-of-the-art radar, Iran’s Revolutionary Guards and air force will combine to test the defences of 3,600 sensitive locations throughout the country, including oil refineries and uranium enrichment facilities.
Brigadier General Farzad Esmaili, commander of the Khatam al-Anbiya air defence base, told a conference this month that the manoeuvres would “identify vulnerabilities, try out new tactics and practise old ones”.
At the same time as the Western manoeuvres in the Gulf, the British Response Task Forces Group — which includes the carrier HMS Illustrious, equipped with Apache attack helicopters, along with the French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle - will be conducting a naval exercise in the eastern Mediterranean. The task force could easily be diverted to the Gulf region via the Suez Canal within a week of being ordered to do so.
The main naval exercise comes as President Barack Obama is scheduled to meet Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, today to discuss the Iranian crisis.
Many within the Obama administration believe that Israel will launch a pre-emptive strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities before the US presidential elections, an act which would signal the failure of one of Washington’s key foreign policy objectives.
Both Downing Street and Washington hope that the show of force will demonstrate to Iran that Nato and the West will not allow President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian leader, to develop a nuclear armoury or close Hormuz.
Sir John Sawers, the head of MI6, the Secret Intelligence Service, reportedly met the Israeli prime minister and Ehud Barak, his defence secretary, two weeks ago in an attempt to avert military action against Iran.
But just last week Mr Netanyahu signalled that time for a negotiated settlement was running out when he said: “The world tells Israel 'Wait, there’s still time.’ And I say, 'Wait for what? Wait until when?’
“Those in the international community who refuse to put red lines before Iran don’t have a moral right to place a red light before Israel.”
The crisis hinges on Iran’s nuclear enrichment programme, which Israel believes is designed to build an atomic weapon. Tehran has long argued that the programme is for civil use only and says it has no plans to an build a nuclear bomb, but that claim has been disputed by the West, with even the head of MI6 stating that the Islamic Republic is on course to develop atomic weapons by 2014.
The Strait of Hormuz has long been disputed territory, with the Iranians claiming control of the region and the entire Persian Gulf.
Rear Admiral Ali Fadavi of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps recently boasted that “any plots of enemies” would be foiled and a heavy price exacted, adding: “We determine the rules of military conflict in the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz.”
But Leon Panetta, the US defence secretary, warned that Iranian attempts to exercise control over the Strait of Hormuz could be met with force.
He said: “The Iranians need to understand that the United States and the international community are going to hold them directly responsible for any disruption of shipping in that region — by Iran or, for that matter, by its surrogates.”
Mr Panetta said that the United States was “fully prepared for all contingencies” and added: “We’ve invested in capabilities to ensure that the Iranian attempt to close down shipping in the Gulf is something that we are going to be able to defeat if they make that decision.”
That announcement was supported by Philip Hammond, the Defence Secretary, who added: “We are determined to work as part of the international community effort to ensure freedom of passage in the international waters of the Strait of Hormuz.”
One defence source told The Sunday Telegraph last night: “If it came to war, there would be carnage. The Iranian casualties would be huge but they would be able to inflict severe blows against the US and British.
“The Iranian Republican Guard are well versed in asymmetrical warfare and would use swarm attacks to sink or seriously damage ships. This is a conflict nobody wants, but the rhetoric from Israel is unrelenting.”

I added bold face to the text.
Curious that they think they can control Iran, while they're not able to control the much smaller Israel. A few days ago I saw an estimate that he US would need much larger armed force in Iran than they had in Iraq and Afghanistan together. The financial fall out might well be dramatic.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
I think a strike on Iran will be limited because the US and West doesn't want to add anymore fuel to the fire that's already burning all across the Middle East because of that film debacle and burning and assassination of a US diplomat and embassy workers.
 

delft

Brigadier
I think a strike on Iran will be limited because the US and West doesn't want to add anymore fuel to the fire that's already burning all across the Middle East because of that film debacle and burning and assassination of a US diplomat and embassy workers.
It will then be ineffective as well as damaging to the US. A major factor in the current anti-american demonstration is no doubt the murder of many people, only some of them intended, by drone. You suggest a small attack that the Iranian regime will easily survive with the risk that the Revolutionary Guards become heroes to the whole of the Middle East. It might be a small risk but entirely unnecessary.
 

Kurt

Junior Member
I agree that a current strike will lead nowhere, but let's rehearse the situation. Iran wants to achieve theoretical nuclear capability. Under this umbrella, proxies could strike at Israel much bolder and possibly even win. Even if there was this umbrella now, the proxies would be unable to achieve any swing of the current status due to massive persistent conventional imbalance. Neither is it possible to hinder the scientists of any country from achieving theoretical nuclear capability, except if you wipe out the whole population. The question is about how close the theoretical designs get to practical enactment. There's absolutely no need to hurry because we do discuss an obvious longterm trend that no change of gouvernment can stop, only a change of mind like in Brazil, Sweden or South Africa. The current saber rattling enables a justification to attack and cause mayhem to a country and whatever Iran does, it won't stop. Iran has a problem from losing face if they seem to capitulate. The question in this war is not about nukes, but spin doctoring. Will the Iranian people keep standing united under the banner for this goal or not and can the US continue the siege under these spin conditions?
The early 21st century is very interesting because it offers a plethora of experiments of different approaches to enforced achievement of goals.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The power lines in to the Qom and Natanz facilities were both recently sabotaged according to the Iranians. JSOC has been operating in Iran on the ground since probably 2006 but this could have been done by a number of different parties

Actually accomplishing such a mission is an incredible feat that only the most professional of soldiers and spies could pull off. While the article speculates that cutting the power would damage centrifuges, I would think that the Iranians would have back up power and that the centrifuges would not be disrupted. On the other hand, I don't think that such mission would be approved if it wasn't going to delay the nuclear program in a way that is regarded as significant
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The power lines in to the Qom and Natanz facilities were both recently sabotaged according to the Iranians. JSOC has been operating in Iran on the ground since probably 2006 but this could have been done by a number of different parties

Actually accomplishing such a mission is an incredible feat that only the most professional of soldiers and spies could pull off. While the article speculates that cutting the power would damage centrifuges, I would think that the Iranians would have back up power and that the centrifuges would not be disrupted. On the other hand, I don't think that such mission would be approved if it wasn't going to delay the nuclear program in a way that is regarded as significant


Sometimes the intelligence agency would hire informants or rebellious Iranian groups to do the dirty work, just like the killings of Iranian nuclear scientists as an example.
 

delft

Brigadier
I found this in WaPo:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Lessons from an Iranian war game

By David Ignatius, Friday, September 21, 2:14 AM

Perhaps it was the “fog of simulation.” But the scariest aspect of a U.S.-Iran war game staged this week was the way each side miscalculated the other’s responses — and moved toward war even as the players thought they were choosing restrained options.

The Iran exercise was organized by Kenneth Pollack, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution’s Saban Center for Middle East Policy. It included former top U.S. officials as Washington policymakers, and prominent Iranian American experts playing Tehran’s hand. I was allowed to observe, on the condition that I wouldn’t name the participants.

The bottom line: The game showed how easy it was for each side to misread the other’s signals. And these players were separated by a mere corridor in a Washington think tank, rather than half a world away.

Misjudgment was the essence of this game: Each side thought it was choosing limited options, but their moves were interpreted as crossing red lines. Attacks proved more deadly than expected; signals were not understood; attempts to open channels of communication were ignored; the desire to look tough compelled actions that produced results neither side wanted.

Let’s walk through the simulation to see how the teams stumbled up the ladder of escalation. The game was set in July 2013, with some broad assumptions: It was assumed that President Obama had been reelected, the P5+1 negotiations remained deadlocked and Israel hadn’t launched a unilateral attack.

The game controllers added some spicy details: Assassinations of Iranian scientists were continuing; and the United States, Israel and Britain were developing a new cyberweapon (imaginary code name: National Pastime) to disrupt power to Iran’s nuclear and military facilities. Even so, the Iranian supreme leader thought that America was a paper tiger, telling aides: “The Americans are tired of the fight, and they are led by a weak man with no stomach for the struggle.”

Meanwhile, Iran was pushing ahead with its nuclear program; it had a rough design for a weapon and, in three to four months, would have enough highly enriched uranium to make two bombs.

The action started on July 6 with an Iranian terror operation: A bomb destroyed a tourist hotel in Aruba, killing 137 people, many of them Americans, including a vacationing U.S. nuclear scientist. The damage at the hotel was far greater than the Iranians had expected.

The U.S. team recommended strong retaliatory moves to signal Iran that it had crossed an “unacceptable threshold.” The United States bombed a Revolutionary Guards camp in eastern Iran; launched a cyberattack that disrupted power at 40 Iranian security facilities; and warned Iranian operatives in 38 countries that they were known and vulnerable. U.S. military leaders in the game complained that these calibrated moves were half-measures.

Bombing the Iranians’ homeland rocked their team. It crossed a red line, in a way the U.S. side hadn’t anticipated. The Tehran players spurned a secret message from Obama, delivered through Russia, warning of “dire consequences” if the nuclear program wasn’t stopped; the imaginary Iranian defense minister called it a “bluff.” The Iranians wanted to respond forcefully but not so much so that they would trigger an attack on their nuclear facilities.

Then the Iranian team made what proved a devastating mistake. After rejecting the most aggressive options (such as attacking Fifth Fleet headquarters in Bahrain), they chose limited actions, described as the “random mining” of the Strait of Hormuz and “harassment” of U.S. ships in the Persian Gulf. The Iranians also dispersed their stockpile of uranium, but only half, to signal they were still willing to negotiate. But the United States missed the message.

“They’ve crossed our red line,” responded the imaginary U.S. national security adviser — expressing the group’s mistaken view that the Iranians had decided to close the strait and attack U.S. vessels. As tensions increased, oil prices headed toward $200 a barrel.

U.S. military options were between harsh and harsher: (a) reopen the strait by force and deliver an ultimatum that Iran stop its nuclear program within 24 hours; or (b) hit Iran’s nuclear facilities simultaneously with reopening the strait. Military logic seemed to require the strongest move. The U.S. team ultimately voted, 5 to 3, for an attack across Iran to disable the nuclear program and destroy coastal defenses.

The unsolved puzzle for the U.S. side was how to stop the conflict, once it started. The Iranians, for their part, had decided to bleed the United States in a protracted struggle. The lesson of the exercise, concluded Pollack, is that “small miscalculations are magnified very quickly.”

[email protected]
Why an explosion at a hotel in Aruba? The US calls the support for Hezbollah and Hamas terrorism as well as support for Iraqi's trying to get rid of the occupation, but no other terrorist action has been proven against Iran. There is no evidence that Iran is developing nuclear weapons and good reason to think it is not.
They started out by assuming the Iranians are idiots. Would that be the reason the players in this game don't want to be identified?

Is that typical of the quality of Washington think tanks?
 

Kurt

Junior Member
I found this in WaPo:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Why an explosion at a hotel in Aruba? The US calls the support for Hezbollah and Hamas terrorism as well as support for Iraqi's trying to get rid of the occupation, but no other terrorist action has been proven against Iran. There is no evidence that Iran is developing nuclear weapons and good reason to think it is not.
They started out by assuming the Iranians are idiots. Would that be the reason the players in this game don't want to be identified?

Is that typical of the quality of Washington think tanks?

It's a good idea to cook news during a pleasant afternoon with some friends over a new tabletop game. Have you ever tried one of these? Label one side Iran and you can make big news like Iran released hordes of werwolves on innocent US-warlocks looking for the URaniUM chALIce hidden underneath the super-secret area 5I.
Boiling down the real message: "Sorry guys, but this diplomatic communication is somehow misleading because we each do our utmost to misunderstand each other and entrap us in a very stupid war. Anyone remembers the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
?"
 

delft

Brigadier
It's a good idea to cook news during a pleasant afternoon with some friends over a new tabletop game. Have you ever tried one of these? Label one side Iran and you can make big news like Iran released hordes of werwolves on innocent US-warlocks looking for the URaniUM chALIce hidden underneath the super-secret area 5I.
Boiling down the real message: "Sorry guys, but this diplomatic communication is somehow misleading because we each do our utmost to misunderstand each other and entrap us in a very stupid war. Anyone remembers the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
?"
I've just looked at the wiki about the July crisis, but yesterday I started reading the thesis about the annexation of Bosnia-Herzegovina by the Double Monarchy, written in Dutch about 1948 by the Reverent Dr. K.H.Siccama. That annexation was only six years earlier.
The situation in Bosnia-Herzegovina is now very different. Now Serbs have been ethnically cleansed form large areas thanks to NATO intervention. The situation is now what Vienna would have wanted then.
 
Top