Chinese Economics Thread

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
And what is your point?

MOst media still make the distinction between eastern and Western Europe.Its misleading, Its trying to give the impression that it had broken into the Western Europe Marketwhen Belarus is just another ex Soviet region where the standards would'nt be as high as that of Western Europe
 
Last edited:
MOst media still make the distinction between eastern and Western Europe.Its misleading, Its trying to give the impression that it had broken into the Western Europe Marketwhen Belarus is just another ex Soviet region

Eastern Europe and Western Europe are different continents now? Most Media I see do not distinquish unless you see the world through a Cold War Prism. Your statement " Belarus is closer to Russia than Central Europe" is actually more misleading.

Fact is Belarus is part of Europe, No misrepresentation here.
Also, I concide that fact was Belarus was previously a part of the Soviet Union. But that does not make it beiong closer to Russia than Europe because Belarus is part of Europe.

Anyway, I do not think I will convince you to change your malicious ways. Please proceed because I do not wish to ruin this good thread. Just stay away from my posting as I do not wish to have any discussions with you,
 
Last edited:

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Dolcevita;187252 Please proceed because I do not wish to ruin this good thread. Just stay away from my posting as I do not wish to have any discussions with you said:
And yet you felt free to comment on my postings In the South Seas Forum. Double standards I think.

Futhermore this is an open forum where everyone is free to comment on any post as they please.


Subject closed

[
 
Last edited:

Norfolk

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Unfortunately I lost the site and I cant remember the guys name . Hes recently been promoting a book (forgotten its name)with more pain on the World Financial markets with increasing interest rates rising to double digits in the near future. His book supposedly provides ideas on how to protect ones wealth under these situations. His claim to fame is that he predicted the 2008 financial meltdown.

Can you see interest rates rising to 15%,20%,25% and more in the next couple of years?

Can't remember for sure myself, although Gerald Celente would be the first name to come to mind. Can't say if was him, though (Edited to Add: if it was Celente, bear in mind he got fleeced by MF Global just as badly as its other investors.)

Logic (especially given the example of the early '80's) would seem to suggest that we should be expecting at least the same interest rates as then (22% at one point IIRC), eventually, if not much more. But that was "stagflation". Now we're dealing with it's evil-er twin, "biflation". Anyone's guess as to what, when, and how, will come of this. Best historical example that immediately comes to mind is 3rd-5th century Rome. Like that clears things up (except for the ending part...)

In short, it seems really difficult to make any meaningful predictions, or even to draw useful conclusions, at this stage. Sorry for the late response; been rather busy lately.
 
Last edited:

Norfolk

Junior Member
VIP Professional
I found it . the guys name is Robert Weidemer . His book is called "Aftershock Survival Summit"

He strikes me as a bit of a Sensationalist (his predicted inflation rate while not in the hyper class , struck me as so) and I was wondering how much credibility he had.


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Think I vaguely remember something about this. Wasn't he advertising something like this on the radio about a year or so ago? Would hear the ad while driving to lunch during work, and checked out the video presentation or whatever it was that was advertised. Was relatively fine with what he was talking about until towards the end. Then I wasn't really sure of his recommendations or even really what he was talking about. Might have been getting a little confused by what he was saying there; don't really remember what that was now.
 

Norfolk

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, Reuters, via The South China Morning Post, 3 May, 2012:

China's non-Manufacturing Purchasing Managers’ Index (PMI) showed on Thursday that the services sector cooled last month, retreating from March’s 10-month high to hit 56.1 in April.

The softer reading underscores the two manufacturing PMI figures for April – one official, one from HSBC – which showed weakness among smaller enterprises despite improved headline figures.

The China Federation of Logistics and Purchasing revised its index last month to reflect seasonal adjustments, with the revision helping push the March index to 58, the highest since May, last year.

Less than positive news, more of which is at the link.

"Better" news here:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, Caijing Magazine, 2 May, 2012:

Final reading of the HSBC China Manufacturing PMI, a major indicator for the country's manufacturing activities, rose for the fifth consecutive month to 49.3 in April, a sign that China's slowdown is stablizing , according to a HSBC report released Tuesday.

The report said the rise was led mainly by improving new orders flows which hit a six month high of 49.7 and a slower rate of production contraction at 49.3 from March's 47.4.

Meanwhile, new exports orders rose back above 50 for the first time in three months to 50.2 in April, after posting below 48 the two months prior.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, by Stephen S. Roach, Caixin Online, 3 May, 2012:

For seven years, the United States has allowed its fixation on the yuan's exchange rate to deflect attention from far more important issues in its economic relationship with China. The Strategic and Economic Dialogue between the United States and China in Beijing is an excellent opportunity to examine – and rethink – America's priorities.

While Roach is certainly correct on many things, and the statistics do firmly back up his claims, I'm still rather leary of his conclusion - working-class consumers on both sides of the Pacific are under pressure; and Great Power competition ain't over yet:

The United States needs to refocus the U.S.-China trade agenda toward expanded market access in these and other areas – pushing back against Chinese policies and government procurement practices that favor domestic production and indigenous innovation. Some progress has been made, but more is needed – for example, getting China to join the World Trade Organization's Government Procurement Agreement. At the same time, the US should reconsider antiquated Cold War restrictions on Chinese purchases of technology-intensive items.

For a growth-starved United States, the opportunities of market access far outweigh the currency threat. The long-dormant Chinese consumer is about to be unleashed. This plays to one of America's greatest strengths – its zeal to compete in new markets. Shame on the United States if it squanders this extraordinary chance by digging in its heels with same timeworn approach in the Economic and Strategic Dialogue.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, by Michael Pettis, China Financial Markets, 3 May, 2012:
In 2006 I started making a number of predictions based on what I thought was the necessary and logical development of China’s growth model. Some of these predictions seemed fairly outlandish, especially to China analysts – Chinese and foreign – who had very little knowledge of economic history or other developing countries, but many of them so far have turned out quite well.

As more and more analysts are beginning to understand the constraints of the Chinese growth model I think it might be useful to list some of these predictions to get a sense of what might be still to come.  Perhaps my bet with The Economist has caused me to throw caution to the winds, since a smart economist never makes his predictions explicit, but here they are:

Visit the link to see 'em.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, by Li Jiabao, China Securities Journal, 3 May, 2012:

"The first round of negotiations will take place later this month ... and I hope the negotiations can be finished within two years," Chinese Minister of Commerce Chen Deming told a news briefing in Beijing.

  "After seven years of preparation, the launch of the FTA negotiations is a turning point to take bilateral cooperation to a higher level.

  "We hope the accord will also serve as a starting point for the economic integration of East Asia," said South Korean Trade Minister Bark Tae-ho.

Sure beats the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, by Wei Tian and Gao Changxin, China Securities Journal, 2 May, 2012:

A key manufacturing gauge rose to a 13-month high in April but clouds still hover over the economy as smaller businesses struggle due to weak demand.

  The Purchasing Managers' Index (PMI), an indicator of manufacturing activity, climbed to 53.3 last month from 53.1 in March, the highest since March 2011, according to a statement by the China Federation of Logistics and Purchasing on Tuesday.

Better news.
 
Last edited:

escobar

Brigadier
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Welder Zhang fires up his blow torch and looks up at the towering, 8,800-tonnes oil tanker that is likely to be his last job at China's privately owned Qiligang Shipbuilding Co.

Barring a miracle, the 50-year-old will soon join the thousands of unemployed shipbuilders who have fallen victim to the end of China's maritime boom and the long-awaited consolidation of its more than 1,600 shipbuilding companies.

Four years into one of the worst downturns to afflict the global shipping industry, hundreds of small to mid-sized shipyards are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy as foreign orders dwindle and domestic lenders slash credit.

"The building of this ship is almost done, and we don't expect to have any new jobs soon," said Zhang, who asked to be identified by one name.

"We used to work 30 days a month, but now we work only 10 to 20 days because not many ships are being built. Many workers have moved on to other jobs."

Qiligang Shipbuilding is one of several troubled firms in the eastern coastal Zhejiang province, the world's largest manufacturing base for small to medium-sized dry docks.

According to local media, around 80 percent of shipyards in Zhejiang have either suspended production or are operating at half their capacity.

"The grass is growing high in many yards that have closed due to a lack of orders," said Zhang Shouguo, secretary general of industry group the China Shipowners' Association.

"This is just the beginning of the woes for shipbuilders and the worst has yet to come."


To survive and keep some of the sector's 400,000 workers employed, shipyards must turn to less lucrative businesses such as leasing vessels, real estate or, in the worst case, tearing apart the ships they once used to build, industry experts say.

"Shipbuilding is a very cyclical industry and those who can maintain strength, complete structural restructuring and transform will be a major force after the recovery," said Zhang Yao, spokesman for Singapore-listed Yangzijiang Shipbuilding (YAZG.SI), one of China's largest vessel building firms.

"For others without flexibility to deal with the market changes, dormancy may be their best choice. Eventually more than 30 percent of existing shipbuilders will disappear."

His forecast is relatively optimistic compared to the view of other industry officials. The head of the government's China State Shipbuilding Corporation, Tan Zuojun, told local media in February he believed 50 percent of domestic shipyards would go bankrupt in the next two to three years.

MARITIME RECESSION


The shipping industry has yet to recover from being mauled by the 2008 global financial crisis, which triggered what the International Monetary Fund called the "Great Trade Collapse".

The Baltic Dry Index .BADI, the benchmark for the freight market and an indicator of global economic activity, plummeted more than 94 percent in 2008 from a record high of 11,793 points. This week, it was trading above 1,100.

During a maritime recession, shipbuilding is usually the first and hardest hit sector as global ship owners delay or cancel orders for new vessels to save capital reserves.

But in China, the world's biggest shipbuilder by volume, government intervention helped the industry defy the norm.

Debt-laden shipyards that otherwise should have gone bust were allowed to stay afloat thanks to easy credit, which stemmed from government efforts to bolster foreign exchange reserves to protect the economy from the crisis.

Lending to the overall shipping industry shot up more than 500 percent year-on-year to nearly $4 billion in 2008, according to loan market information service Thomson Reuters LPC.

"When Chinese shipyards have new orders, the buyers must bring foreign currency into China since the shipping contracts are in U.S. dollars," said Lam Pak Ho, Hong Kong-based senior manager at Bank of China.

The huge expansion in Chinese shipyards, which currently hold about half the world's new ship orders, helped create a glut of low-tech vessels that has kept freight rates low and prolonged the agony for ship owners across the globe.


As these foreign firm struggle, orders have declined and financing has become problematic, prompting Beijing to turn its back on what has now become an unprofitable business.

Credit has also dried up as the government tries to cool the economy, falling more than 87 percent from 2008 to around $501 million last year.

New orders to Chinese shipyards tumbled 52 percent last year to 36.22 million deadweight tonnes, the China Association of National Shipbuilding Industry says. This year, new orders are down about 40 percent year-on-year in January-February.

SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST


Only the largest Chinese shipyards such as China Shipbuilding Industry Corp (601989.SS), China Rongsheng Heavy Industries (1101.HK) and Yangzijiang Shipbuilding, are expected to survive this round of consolidation.

In the government's five-year economic forecast, China's 10 largest shipbuilders are expected to hold at least 70 percent of the domestic market by the end of 2015, compared to less than 50 percent in 2010.

A short drive from the Qiligang Shipbuilding yard in Zhejiang, two unfinished oil tankers stand in the once bustling dry dock owned by struggling Dongfang Shipbuilding (DFSB.L).

The shipyard, which had employed more than 600 workers just over a year ago, could become another scrap yard if the company fails to find a more profitable way to survive. China is one of the world's leading ship recycling nations.

"At the end of this year, you could see many shipyards turn into scrap yards,"
said Venkatesh Narayanaswamy, the former chairman of Dongfang Shipbuilding. "This would be the worst case scenario, because the profit margins are much lower."
 

J-XX

Banned Idiot
michael pettis has been dead wrong on the chinese economy. the guy is a complete nutjob, a wacky professor. pettis predicted after the asian financial crisis that china will have a horriible deacade in the 2000's and after the 2008 cris, he predicted china will be the last out of the recession. china had a great decade in the 2000's and was the first out of the recession in 2008.

the guy is a china hater, he should not be taken seriously, why this guy is allowed to spew his anti-chinese propaganda in chinese universities, i will never know.

the guy should be fired from his job. pettis is more nuttier than paul krugman, and krugman is one helluva kook.

every prediction of pettis on china has been dead wrong, then the guy twists his prediction to escape the humiliation.
the guy just cannot handle the fact that china is going to surpass america economically, there is no two ways about it.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
"Barring a miracle, the 50-year-old will soon join the thousands of unemployed shipbuilders who have fallen victim to the end of China's maritime boom and the long-awaited consolidation of its more than 1,600 shipbuilding companies."

I never knew there were that many shipbuilding companies in the world, let alone in China.
 
Top