why does the west still refuse to sell china weapons?

S

Schumacher

Senior Member
Geographer said:
China's armed forces would be very interested in purchasing helicopters, transport aircraft like the A400M, and airplane engines from Rolls-Royce and Snecma. Their arms industry has major deficiencies in these four areas while Europe is very strong in them. Eurocopter is the top helicopter company in the world, and the EH101 and NH90 would be very useful to China. But lifting the arms embargo is years off..................................
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Why would China buy any of those items in large number off the shelves ? considering their own progress in these areas. At most, they'd like to buy a few to study if the prices are cheap enough, then Europe is not likely to agree even without embargo.
 
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wdl1976

New Member
The embargo is an excellent political tool, as may technologies are dual use. Not only it slows China Military technology development it may also slows other technological advancement derivative.
The key word is slowing down but not necessarilly prohibitive. Depends on China's R&D policy.
 
rhino123

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Geographer said:
China's armed forces would be very interested in purchasing helicopters, transport aircraft like the A400M, and airplane engines from Rolls-Royce and Snecma. Their arms industry has major deficiencies in these four areas while Europe is very strong in them.
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China, if wanted to, could get helicopters and transport aircraft from Russia and Ukraine as easily. The Mi-series of helicopters are not exactly lagging as compared to the Eurocopters. What the Chinese wanted is not to buy helicopters and transport plane as a product but buying their technology so they could build these system themselves.

As I have pointed out before, the Chinese, at this moment, are more interested in high tech components and not the entire system... And I think the west had opened out more or less to the selling of these components (although engines are still not one of them) but electronic packages had already been on sale now.
 
Spartan95

Spartan95

Junior Member
As already posted earlier, the news of EU lifting the arms embargo on China is being reported by a lot of news agencies. Here's the reporting by People's Daily:

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EU may end China arms embargo in early 2011
09:01, December 31, 2010

The European Union arms embargo on China that has existed for two decades may be lifted in early 2011, sources in Brussels told the French newspaper Le Figaro Thursday.

The lifting of the embargo on all lethal weapons "could happen very quickly," a source close to EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton told the paper.

It said the embargo had been interpreted as a slap in the face by China and that it had ultimately been judged ineffective by the EU, as China increasingly builds its own weapons.

A confidential report presented to the last EU summit that ended December 17 described the embargo as "a major obstacle" to Europe-China security and foreign policy cooperation, adding that the EU should draw practical conclusions from this situation.

Divisions appeared at the EU's 27 foreign ministers in September, with some mooting the idea of a conditional lifting of the embargo.

The Figaro said the Netherlands, Britain and, to a lesser extent, Germany, had all lowered their opposition to lifting the embargo.

According to published WikiLeaks documents, the US has mobilized its embassies in the EU to head off an attempt by Spain, which took over the rotating EU presidency on January 1, 2010, to lift the 27-nation bloc's arms sales embargo on China, German media reported earlier this month.

"Lifting (the embargo) would have serious consequences for security and stability in the Pacific region," the embassies were told. They were also advised to emphasize China's human rights violations to EU governments.

Source: Global Times/Agencies
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This may well happen in 2011 as cash strapped European nations look to arms export to boost their economy and keep their military-industrial base going.

However, as already mentioned earlier, I doubt there is much that EU can offer that PRC is interested in. As Rhino mentioned, I think PRC is only interested in high tech components rather than entire products. Europe's Phased Array Radar and VLS modules for warships and aircraft engines are probably the components that PRC may be interested in. Not sure if EU will be willing to sell these components though.
 
duskylim

duskylim

Junior Member
VIP Professional
For me the primary reason for lifting the European arms embargo has shifted from arms sales - which given China's domestic progress and indigenous development and manufacturing attitude will never be very large to begin with, to the realm of finance and economics.

Several of the less-developed members of the European Union and the British banks in the City of London would love to get their hands on the vast horde of Chinese cash, and also have them purchase their bonds in the hope of staving off defaults.

That and a non-existent Chinese military threat to Europe are reason enough to remove the arms-embargo.
 
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K

KYli

Brigadier
You need to read the forum rules before posting. This sentence is too short and might creates misunderstanding.
 
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R

Red Moon

Junior Member
duskylim said:
For me the primary reason for lifting the European arms embargo has shifted from arms sales - which given China's domestic progress and indigenous development and manufacturing attitude will never be very large to begin with, to the realm of finance and economics.

Several of the less-developed members of the European Union and the British banks in the City of London would love to get their hands on the vast horde of Chinese cash, and also have them purchase their bonds in the hope of staving off defaults.

That and a non-existent Chinese military threat to Europe are reason enough to remove the arms-embargo.
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I think that's just right. China has been using its "vast horde" of cash very wisely lately. While the US was courting Vietnam, Japan and South Korea, China has been on a Charm offensive in Southern and Eastern Europe, and through these, Europe as a whole (and therefore Germany).
 
Spartan95

Spartan95

Junior Member
duskylim said:
For me the primary reason for lifting the European arms embargo has shifted from arms sales - which given China's domestic progress and indigenous development and manufacturing attitude will never be very large to begin with, to the realm of finance and economics.

Several of the less-developed members of the European Union and the British banks in the City of London would love to get their hands on the vast horde of Chinese cash, and also have them purchase their bonds in the hope of staving off defaults.

That and a non-existent Chinese military threat to Europe are reason enough to remove the arms-embargo.
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The arms embargo prevents EU from selling arms to PRC. It has no restrictions to trade and financial flows between EU and PRC.

Take for example the British PM's visit to PRC in late 2010 where some business deals were sealed. PRC is also known to hold part of the nations reserves in Euro, after diversifying out from US Treasury bonds. And all these have already happened even though the arms embargo is still in place.
 
duskylim

duskylim

Junior Member
VIP Professional
I acknowledge that the EU is indeed China's largest trading partner (and trade between the two entities is growing fast).

Nonetheless, China sees the US/European Arms Embargo as a form of discrimination and an irritant to normal relations - something that is usually imposed upon 'pariah' nations such as Iran, North Korea and until recently Iraq.

The issue is not that of trade and finance per se, but rather more subtly, one of 'status' or if you like - mutual respect - China wishes to be treated as a full and equal partner, not one that must constantly seek the West's approval.

It is not unlike the way Chinese merchants are and were treated in Western colonial enclaves like Hong Kong, Macau and indeed Singapore - though they were responsible for most of the trade and enterprise they remained very much 'second-class' citizens.

The fact that you are blissfully unaware of this sentiment suggests to me you an ex-pat residing in Singapore.

Clearly the West at every opportunity seeks to preserve its distance and feeling of superiority over various 'inferior' races.

It must come as a rude shock that some European countries are now going hat-in-hand to seek monetary aid from China.
 
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