China Flanker Thread II

RIA Novotsi said:

Russia downplays Chinese J-15 fighter capabilities

19:25 04/06/2010

China's J-15 carrier-based fighter will not be able to compete with Russia's Su-33 fighter on global markets because it is inferior to the Russian aircraft, a Russian military analyst said on Friday.

China since 2001 has been developing the J-15 naval fighter, which is believed to be a clone of Russia's Su-33 Falcon-D. China bought an Su-33 prototype earlier from Ukraine, and used it to develop the new aircraft.

The J-15 is expected to be stationed initially onboard the Chinese Varyag aircraft carrier currently being fitted in the port of Dalian. China bought the unfinished Admiral Kuznetsov class aircraft carrier from Ukraine in 1998.

"The Chinese J-15 clone is unlikely to achieve the same performance characteristics of the Russian Su-33 carrier-based fighter, and I do not rule out the possibility that China could return to negotiations with Russia on the purchase of a substantial batch of Su-33s," said Col. (Ret.) Igor Korotchenko, a member of the Defense Ministry's Public Council.

The Su-33 is a carrier-based multi-role fighter, which can perform a variety of air superiority, fleet defense, air support and reconnaissance missions. The aircraft entered service with the Russian Navy in 1995 and are currently deployed on board the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier.

Korotchenko said China was unlikely to solve technical problems related to the design of the folding wings and to develop a reliable engine for the aircraft, although the first J-15 prototype reportedly made its maiden flight on August 31, 2009, powered by Chinese WS-10 turbofan engines.

China and Russia had been in negotiations on the sale of the Su-33 Flanker-D fighters to be used on future Chinese aircraft carriers since 2006, but the talks collapsed over China's request for an initial delivery of two aircraft for a "trial."

Russian Defense Ministry sources confirmed that the refusal was due to findings that China had produced its own copycat version of the Su-27SK fighter jet in violation of intellectual property agreements.

In 1995, China secured a $2.5-billion production license from Russia to build 200 Su-27SKs, dubbed J-11A, at the Shenyang Aircraft Corp.

The deal required the aircraft to be outfitted with Russian avionics, radars and engines. Russia cancelled the arrangement in 2006 after it discovered that China was developing an indigenous version, J-11B, with Chinese avionics and systems. The decision came after China had already produced at least 95 aircraft.

Last year, Russia refused again to sell the Su-33 to China even after Beijing had offered to buy 14 of them, saying that at least 24 jets should be sold to recoup production costs.

MOSCOW, June 4 (RIA Novosti)

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Semi-Lobster said:

Interesting about this talk about Russia's involvement in Chinese domestic aircraft production, Russia officials just made this statement:

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Lion said:

This is a classic statement from Russian. We shall wait for the day China is going to beg Russian for Su-33. Looks like they have not learn their lesson. They claim J-11B will not be success and will only be operational in 2012. Now they eat back their words and they want to try again? :rofl:

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kiwinopal said:

Deino

The issue is simple, China paid for the right to build the Su-27, not for each Su-27 individually, they paid for the right of building Su-27 in China and up to 200 was the limit imposed by the contract.

Do you think China paid for the titanium, aluminun and steel used in each Su-27? no or course not, China just paid for the right to build it.

China notified Russia they were not going to build the 200 aircraft, just a fraction of them so they were not going to need all those 400 Al-31 they were allowed to use as part of the contract on their J-11s/Su-27.

Since the contract said China needed to use russian components they notify the russians, we do not need more russian radars and engines.

Once China built the J-11B with WS-10s, they were breaching the deal legal boundaries, since they were not using Russian components so Russia and Sukhoi complaigned to China.

China just paid for the right to build the aircraft and the limitations of that contract was up to 200 they can build and they had to use Russian components.….

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challenge said:

sales brochure,J-11 weapon/sensor phylon.
I notice some sort of JSOW type air to ground missile.

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Deino said:

Sorry guys for bringing this old topic back on the agenda, but - in line of a quite strange but interesting discussion - at the Key-Forum there's one item new on the agenda and so far I never found any info on that (at least what us usual for such cases)
Could anyone here help me out ?? PLEASE !



Nothing really new but all I ask for is a confirmation ... a link, a report or open source, where it is noted that they:

- only paid for the right to build it !
- have additionally to pay for each delivered Su-27 individually !


In my opinon - and that's what I can't believe - that would have been a much too expensive deal, if each delivered aircarft would require an extra payment. So, just to be sure.

Thanks in advance,
Deino

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crobato said:

They licensed to build the Su-27. All that intellectual property and licensing, I believe, was bought for 2 billion US$.

The 200 kits are actually a separate agreement meant to support the first. They are not part of the 2 billion for the license and are paid separately.

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