China's Internet Boom, Games, Addiction & other news

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Okay, I'm guess you're working under the assumption that a court order from a US court has more legitimacy than a court order from a Chinese court?

You still admit, though, that in the US, the government (which the court system is a part of) only has to ask to get the private and confidential information?

You are assuming that the court system as in the Judiciary branch works hand in hand with the Executive and Legislative branch, like in the US and other countries.

You're wrong. The Executive government is not the Judiciary and in fact, the Judiciary system can block it if it feels such an attempt by the Executive branch violates the laws set by the Legislative and the Constitution.

You really need to study how the US government works.

That's completely irrelevant, you know. The point is, the US government is able to obtain such private information whenever it wants.

Wrong again.

You're assuming the US government is a single monolithic entity when its not. If any element of the Executive branch decides to take matters on its own hands that happens to violate the laws set by the Legislative, then such an act is indeed not lawful, that particular element is a rogue, and subject to prosecution.
 

Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
So the US government was conducting controversial spying on US citizens and US visitors:
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. This shouldn't come as a surprise. Nations have been spying on their own people for a very, very, very long time (including the US). The real questions are: (1) When is spying justified? (domestic and foreign spying) (2) How to ensure the espionage system is fair and corruption free?
 
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Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
Google's smile is really a crocodile's smile:
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. Gee, who would have knew Google has ambitious expansion plans hidden behind moral pretexts?

A Chinese company claimed their product was the original and Apple's iPad is the copy. US news said the Chinese company stole Apple's idea before Apple could introduce the iPad.
 

wdl1976

New Member
Even in the US, requesting confidential email information requires a court order. If any government can intrude in web based email system, then simply nothing can be trusted---Yahoo, Hotmail, GMail, your local ISP provider. This is the same level as a bank account. Privacy issues is extremely vital to keep a free society, which at least the US and other countries aspire to. Please note the ability to access confidential mail accounts literally can be used by any administration on power to smear opposition party, politicians and media as well. That would be the equivalent of illegal wire tapping.

.


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"Under the new law, in such cases the government may conduct surveillance for up to a year without a court order"

So in lieu of this new information, what would your opinion be in regards to illegal wire tapping ?
 
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Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
The court system can be corrupt. The executive branch can be corrupt. The legislative branch can be corrupt. Don't blindly trust the government in ANY nation. China's government has violated human rights. The US government has violated human rights. The civilian sector has lots of criminals, too.

Just because the court system says the law enforcement agents may spy on a US citizen or visitor does not mean the court system is morally correct. Read news about police corruption or police brutality. Then read how the corrupt police officers got a slap on the wrist from the court system. Some corrupt police officers even get "bravery awards" for attacking or killing harmless, innocent people.
 

solarz

Brigadier
You are assuming that the court system as in the Judiciary branch works hand in hand with the Executive and Legislative branch, like in the US and other countries.

You're wrong. The Executive government is not the Judiciary and in fact, the Judiciary system can block it if it feels such an attempt by the Executive branch violates the laws set by the Legislative and the Constitution.

You really need to study how the US government works.

Wrong again.

You're assuming the US government is a single monolithic entity when its not. If any element of the Executive branch decides to take matters on its own hands that happens to violate the laws set by the Legislative, then such an act is indeed not lawful, that particular element is a rogue, and subject to prosecution.

In theory, you're right. In practice, you're wrong. Who appoints supreme court judges? Which people oversee organizations like the NSA? How do *those* people get their jobs?

Finally, you still haven't answered one fundamental question: do you deny that the US government is currently conducting electronic surveillance on its citizens?
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
In theory, you're right. In practice, you're wrong. Who appoints supreme court judges? Which people oversee organizations like the NSA? How do *those* people get their jobs?

Finally, you still haven't answered one fundamental question: do you deny that the US government is currently conducting electronic surveillance on its citizens?

So the issue is now spying? Will I deny US government is looking into forums, social networking and other public places, I believe they would. But I don't believe they would hack into Hotmail, Gmail or bank accounts without court authorization.

Who appoints Supreme Court judges? And don't forget, who approves them too. Any President can appoint a nominee for Supreme Court judge, but it takes the Legislature to pass them. Now when someone is on the Supreme Court already, its a lifetime tenure. Figure out what it takes to impeach and remove a member of the Supreme Court or any member of the court.

If the Chinese government wants to request Yahoo or GMail to investigate a potential terrorist, there is nothing wrong to send a formal request, and Yahoo or Google to act on this according to Chinese law. As a matter of fact, its the Chinese government who passes laws about hacking, they should be the first to abide by it.

And inframan, there is a big difference between a terrorist and a dissident. Just because someone blogs some difference of opinion with regards to government policy, is that something to be investigated by the government? There is a big difference in "I oppose Health Care Policy" to "I want to bomb a synagogue." There is a big difference between Blogger and Bomber.

The real issue is censorship. You tell me if the US or other governments are asking Google or Bing to censure results.

The US system is not perfect and many bad things happen, but please don't compare it with the rampant corruption and power abuse that happens inside mainland China.
 

Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
Hi Crobato, I was wondering where you were. You usually bring up good articles and good analysis about the military.

Please notice there is a difference between "censorship" and "to censure." You use these two words as if they have the same definition. Last time I checked, "to censor" means to stop someone from expressing themselves. "To censure" means to punish someone a lot for doing something wrong or allegedly wrong. I will assume you are talking about both definitions.

In the past, China's censorship was far more oppressive than America's censorship system. In the past, America's censorship system was directed at non-whites, especially Native Americans, but China's censorship was directed at almost everyone in China. The same applies to "censures". Nowadays, I see China improving (but I obviously haven't traveled all over China, met every person in China, and been in every situation in China). Unfortunately, I see the US declining when it comes to correct, moral, or appropriate censorship and censors, but China is improving. I don't just look at someone's current location. I also look other things, such as where the person is going and where the person started. I apply this assessment to organizations, institutions, and nations.


WARNING: WALL OF TEXT BELOW (Read at your own risk.) (LOL)


I notice how the US government works with US media corporations (i.e., Google) to questionably spy on US citizens and visitors (easily search news articles on this).

I see how the US government works with various media corporations (i.e., Google) to censor information regarding the US government's war crimes or human rights violations in regions all over the world. For example, journalists, military personnel, and bureaucrats have lost jobs and their articles have been deleted by media corporations when they reported about how the US military has been engaged in drug trades and prostitution in Latin America, Southeast Asia, and other regions. War crime photos and videos are top secret information. Photos of human rights violations have limited release.

I read news about the US government and US media corporations conducts closed discussions with the Middle East nations and companies. The US government and US media corporations want the Middle to censor or minimize Middle East news that criticize the US, Israel, and the EU. The US government and US media corporations have monopolized the TV system and most print media, and they promote information that is highly biased in their favor. I don't mind contrasting opinions and information, but I don't like monopolies mixed with biases. For example, the US government and US media corporations are very tolerant and supportive of US terrorism abroad (i.e., many Middle Easterners believe they are being invaded, and not liberated, by the US military) and Israeli terrorism, but the US government and US media corporations are usually severe towards anyone who is accused of terrorism by the US or Israel. This manifests in the form of both soft censorship (highly biased news) and hard censorship (ending the dissemination as much as possible).

The US government and US media corporations love to highlight China's problem with piracy (theft of IP, trademark, copyright, and patents), but the US government and US media corporations don't do enough to highlight domestic piracy and alleged international piracy, thefts, and pillages by the US government and US corporations.

I compare the way the US government and US media corporations handled religious extremists in the US (Waco Texas, Christian extremists, Jewish extremists, and Muslim extremists) and religious extremists in China (Muslim extremists, Falun Gang (sp?), and Tibetan extremists). The US government and US media corporations are VERY harsh towards religious organizations that challenge their power, but they are very kind to religious organizations that challenge the Chinese government's power and Chinese corporations' power.

Now compare international religious extremists. In the past, the Taliban and Al-Queda were a great US ally against the Soviet Union. US media corporations even made a Rambo movie about the heroic Rambo allying with brave, militaristic Afghanis battling against the Soviet Union. Now the Taliban and Al-Queda are critical threats to world safety and world justice according to the US government and US media corporations. I don't see Google making lots of noise about the lack of or the need to publicize Taliban viewpoints, Al-Queda opinions, Palestinian perspectives, Iranian arguments, and so forth. Google and US media corporations seem to enjoy working with the US government to misrepresent and suppress information from alleged terrorists, and the manipulation favors them almost all of the time. When international religious extremists strike at China, the US government and the US media corporations usually claim China somehow deserved the attacks.

I do notice how the US government works with various media corporations to censure people who showcase information considered "unfit for public consumption" by the US government and US media corporations. For example, US citizens have filmed police brutality and police corruption, then they try to put the videos on the Internet. Eventually, these US citizens are forced by the US government to stop their actions, and the US government's justification is usually something questionable, such as the US citizen possessed drugs so the US government must search and confiscate the US citizen's belongings (including his/her electronics and records). The US media corporations do NOTHING or very little to help these people.

Unfortunately, a diverse nation like the US still suffers from cultural problems, socio-economic problems, political problems, crime problems, and ethnicity problems between various people in the US. The US government and US media corporations do a lousy job reporting about these problems. Instead, the US government and US media corporations choose to create news or information that keep them in power (i.e., playing various groups of people against each other instead leading people to develop real solutions).

The US government and US media corporations even apply censorship and censures to domestic and foreign businesses. They are very prejudiced in how they promote or demote businesses within and outside of America, which is very unfair, because the US government and US media corporations have a monopoly over the TV and major print media, and they still have fundamental control over the Internet (power to regulate and power to create monopolies or cartels). Remember "Too big to fail"? That was total hogwash to perpetuate the wealthy, but incompetent class. IMO, China would be censured by the US government and US media corporations if it either had large savings or large debt.

Right now, the US is more fair and free than China, but I think the situation is rapidly changing in reverse. I hope both nations and other nations do a better job with the free flow of factual information, artistic information, and opinions that do not promote injustice (I don't believe in 100% unrestrained freedom of information).
 

solarz

Brigadier
So the issue is now spying? Will I deny US government is looking into forums, social networking and other public places, I believe they would. But I don't believe they would hack into Hotmail, Gmail or bank accounts without court authorization.

Who appoints Supreme Court judges? And don't forget, who approves them too. Any President can appoint a nominee for Supreme Court judge, but it takes the Legislature to pass them. Now when someone is on the Supreme Court already, its a lifetime tenure. Figure out what it takes to impeach and remove a member of the Supreme Court or any member of the court.

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong... but doesn't the Legislature consist of a majority of people who are in the same party as the President?

If the Chinese government wants to request Yahoo or GMail to investigate a potential terrorist, there is nothing wrong to send a formal request, and Yahoo or Google to act on this according to Chinese law. As a matter of fact, its the Chinese government who passes laws about hacking, they should be the first to abide by it.

First of all, NOTHING indicates that the Chinese government is behind the gmail hackings. Nothing except unsubstantiated speculations on the part of western media, that is.

Secondly, I'm not interested in arguing whether the Chinese government would have been justified in hacking Gmail, if hypothetically speaking, they were behind it. What I want is to point out the hypocrisy of wailing on the Chinese government for (assuming that they wish to) trying to access private email accounts for the purposes of law enforcement, when the US government does it routinely.


And inframan, there is a big difference between a terrorist and a dissident. Just because someone blogs some difference of opinion with regards to government policy, is that something to be investigated by the government? There is a big difference in "I oppose Health Care Policy" to "I want to bomb a synagogue." There is a big difference between Blogger and Bomber.

You'll NEVER get arrested for saying "I oppose the Health Care Policy". In fact, there are entire TV shows in China dedicated to debating social issues.

What you WILL get arrested is for saying "I oppose the Communist Party", at least if you say it loud enough and repeat it enough times.

The real issue is censorship. You tell me if the US or other governments are asking Google or Bing to censure results.

The US system is not perfect and many bad things happen, but please don't compare it with the rampant corruption and power abuse that happens inside mainland China.

What other governments do you mean? I'm pretty sure PLENTY of governments in the world censor search results. The question is just *what*, exactly, is censored.

The US and China are different countries with different needs. The US arrests people who *view* (view, not make) child pornography because it regards it as immoral and exploitative of children. China arrests people who try to spread anti-government messages because such acts have the potential to cause unrest and destablize the country.
 
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