052C/052D Class Destroyers

Maybe, but I doubt it.
We can see scaffolding on the bridge, mast, smoke stack and forward superstructure in the very picture you posted on the last page. I can't see how water in the aft bay would require maintenance or changes suggested by the extent of scaffolding, at the locations we see.

Certainly changing the rear hatch would not need the entire set up they have going on.

That shipyard has a "boatload," of activity going on...pun intended.

I mean I have to say it is one of the busiest naval shipyards I have seen in terms of the number and variety of ships.

As to the Type 052Ds.

I believe the first one was sort of hurried through. I believe that in so doing the PLAN was able to identify all sorts of things with the vessel that they are now ensuring are right in the following vessels. Between that, and the amount of other activity...it could explain the time frames.

In the end, the PLAN is building large, AEGIS-like DDGs faster than anyone else on the planet. The first vessel was launched in August 2012. The sixth vessel was launched in December 2014. That is simply phenomenal, six launches in two years and three months!

We shall see what the actual commissioning rate is maintained at over time.

The first vessel was commissioned in March 2014. None of have been commissioned since.

By comparison, the US Navy has launched 63 Burke Class DDGs since September 1989 from two yards...that's 25 1/2 years, or launching approximately 2.4 vessels per year over a 25 year time frame...but also from two yards.

The US Navy has commissioned 62 vessels since the first in July 1991, or a space of 23 years and nine months. That's a rate of commissioning, over that long time frame, about equal to the build rate.

Once Dalian kicks in, and we have a several year run rate, we will know better the overall rates that the PLAN attains.

IMHO, right now it is too soon to be too hard on the PLAN and bemoan the fact that only one has been commissioned.

jkliz said:

Why are the sea trials taking so long? I mean, we basically have 3 type 052Ds in sea trial while only one in service....

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I see two here at Sanya though the one closest to the camera doesn't have number yet, so maybe another one to be commissioned into south sea fleet soon.

the little green dinghy in the foreground is classic! is this a PLAN vacation postcard?
why doesn't the stern of the rear ship extend past that of the front one?

janjak desalin said:

the little green dinghy in the foreground is classic! is this a PLAN vacation postcard?

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This is from a series of pics someone posted a couple weeks back, there is also one 052C and three 054A visible:



So at least three modern destroyer and three modern frigates moored on that pier.

janjak desalin said:

why doesn't the stern of the rear ship extend past that of the front one?

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Simplest explanation is that you are not looking at the ships directly from the side but at an a slight angle from front to back:

I wouldn't be so concerned whether or not it's officially in service. As others have said, the first one joined earlier (ahead of 2 052Cs that had launched before) so that it can test out a variety of new systems. At this point, PLAN just inducted all of the 052Cs. PLAN are taking their time fixing whatever issue they had with the first 052D on the newer ones.

tphuang said:

I wouldn't be so concerned whether or not it's officially in service. As others have said, the first one joined earlier (ahead of 2 052Cs that had launched before) so that it can test out a variety of new systems. At this point, PLAN just inducted all of the 052Cs. PLAN are taking their time fixing whatever issue they had with the first 052D on the newer ones.

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Amen to every bit of that, Tphuang.

Spot on.

Jeff Head said:

Amen to every bit of that, Tphuang.

Spot on.

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All very true...........but I think members are missing the point!

i.e Why 'commission' a ship when it was clear the ship was not fully ready, and tested?...........this has not been the case with other vessels, I mean 'commissioniong a ship is just a statement, and does not apply to its testing of systems or crew readiness............I think there was more to this than people realise.........I think there was a political issue to this as well, in that the 'Kunming' was commissioned at least 6 months earlier than anyone expected.

The Chinese Navy could of carried on testing and evaluating the ship in further sea trials before being made active!

steve_rolfe said:

All very true...........but I think members are missing the point!

i.e Why 'commission' a ship when it was clear the ship was not fully ready, and tested?...........this has not been the case with other vessels, I mean 'commissioniong a ship is just a statement, and does not apply to its testing of systems or crew readiness............I think there was more to this than people realise.........I think there was a political issue to this as well, in that the 'Kunming' was commissioned at least 6 months earlier than anyone expected.

The Chinese Navy could of carried on testing and evaluating the ship in further sea trials before being made active!

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If ship commissionings were all due to political/PR then why not commission all ships early? No, there must be a tangible reason they commissioned the first 052D early, the same reason they commissioned the first two 052Cs relatively early as well.

I think a possible reason is that formally commissioning a ship may more permanently allocate a ship to its designated fleet base and crew, letting it participate in closer to operational and realistic situations by naval crew who will actually man the ship class. That early use as they learn the ropes of the ship will provide a variety of feedback, manuals, courses for crews of subsequent 052Ds to benefit from. Also, feedback from the early commissioning crew may provide feedback for the shipyard to possibly to modify, streamline or pay attention to minor details of subsequent ships of the class during fitting out and trials.

By contrast if they did not commission the first 052D or first two 052Cs early, then they could technically still test a lot of the ship's functions and subsystems prior to actual commissioning but I think it will also have many shipyard crew in addition to naval crew, rather than having a vast majority of naval crew instead. And having a shipyard heavy crew during trials means they can't station the ship at a naval base for long duration either given shipyard crew are civilians and live close to the shipyards where they work at anyway, rather than a naval base hundreds of kilometers away.

So in that sense I think an early commissioning of initial ships or ship of a class does make sense as it allows a more vigorous shakedown and provides a more rapid learning curve by naval crew in a more realistic operational manner to provide feedback for a more leisurely and standardized commissioning pace and level of readiness for subsequent ships of the class.
I would also bet that the crew of the first 052D also have a higher proportion of officers and enlisted sailors experienced with other advanced ship classes like 052C or 054A, meaning they may also be able to learn the ropes of a new ship class the fastest as well.
I think another contributing factor for why subsequent ships may commission slower is because the crews may be less experienced with advanced ships... however I think the majority reason is also that subsequent ships also commission with a higher level of operational readiness capability compared to the first ship of a class.

Bltizo said:

If ship commissionings were all due to political/PR then why not commission all ships early? No, there must be a tangible reason they commissioned the first 052D early, the same reason they commissioned the first two 052Cs relatively early as well.

I think a possible reason is that formally commissioning a ship may more permanently allocate a ship to its designated fleet base and crew, letting it participate in closer to operational and realistic situations by naval crew who will actually man the ship class. That early use as they learn the ropes of the ship will provide a variety of feedback, manuals, courses for crews of subsequent 052Ds to benefit from. Also, feedback from the early commissioning crew may provide feedback for the shipyard to possibly to modify, streamline or pay attention to minor details of subsequent ships of the class during fitting out and trials.

By contrast if they did not commission the first 052D or first two 052Cs early, then they could technically still test a lot of the ship's functions and subsystems prior to actual commissioning but I think it will also have many shipyard crew in addition to naval crew, rather than having a vast majority of naval crew instead. And having a shipyard heavy crew during trials means they can't station the ship at a naval base for long duration either given shipyard crew are civilians and live close to the shipyards where they work at anyway, rather than a naval base hundreds of kilometers away.

So in that sense I think an early commissioning of initial ships or ship of a class does make sense as it allows a more vigorous shakedown and provides a more rapid learning curve by naval crew in a more realistic operational manner to provide feedback for a more leisurely and standardized commissioning pace and level of readiness for subsequent ships of the class.
I would also bet that the crew of the first 052D also have a higher proportion of officers and enlisted sailors experienced with other advanced ship classes like 052C or 054A, meaning they may also be able to learn the ropes of a new ship class the fastest as well.
I think another contributing factor for why subsequent ships may commission slower is because the crews may be less experienced with advanced ships... however I think the majority reason is also that subsequent ships also commission with a higher level of operational readiness capability compared to the first ship of a class.

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Thanks...........a very good reply!