PLAN Sovremenny DDG 136, 137, 138 & 139 Thread

[sequ]

You can't just put a VLS wherever you think you can. You've got to take in mind that we don't know how the ship is arranged from the inside and what structure is in the way of a VLS. You just can't cut through structural and support beams to make room for stuff.

Secondly, these upgraded sov's don't have the radars like on the 052C and D to guide long range sams like the HHQ-9. Therefor it doesn't need that much UVLS cells. The only missles the UVLS on the sov's are going to carry are land attack missiles and maybe anti-ship missiles. The smaller VLS are going to carry the HQ-16 and ASROC like on the type 054A. The UVLS aren't going to store relatively small missiles without quadpacking. I doubt you could put more than one HQ-16 in a UVLS cell. It's a waste of space.

 

[Iron Man]

You can't just put a VLS wherever you think you can. You've got to take in mind that we don't know how the ship is arranged from the inside and what structure is in the way of a VLS. You just can't cut through structural and support beams to make room for stuff.

Fortunately, we kinda do know how the ship is arranged on the inside:

As you can see, it's just rooms. If there were large pieces of machinery underneath, I could see potential problems in relocating them elsewhere. As it is, berthing spaces, conference rooms, mess halls, etc., can all be relocated, their need minimized by automation, or other creative methods.

Secondly, these upgraded sov's don't have the radars like on the 052C and D to guide long range sams like the HHQ-9. Therefor it doesn't need that much UVLS cells. The only missles the UVLS on the sov's are going to carry are land attack missiles and maybe anti-ship missiles. The smaller VLS are going to carry the HQ-16 and ASROC like on the type 054A. The UVLS aren't going to store relatively small missiles without quadpacking. I doubt you could put more than one HQ-16 in a UVLS cell. It's a waste of space.

I have made this same exact point in this exact same thread about lack of long range radar guidance before, and I have also stated that universal VLS cells would be useful on this ship if they developed a quad-packed air defense missile. You should look catch up in this thread by scrolling back some pages. 48 universal VLS cells could yield 64 quad-packed MRSAMs, 16 VL ASW missiles (including possibly the new long-range winged ASW missile), and 16 LACMs, in addition to the YJ-12/YJ-18 ASCMs in the slant launchers.

 

[sequ]

I have made this same exact point in this exact same thread about lack of long range radar guidance before, and I have also stated that universal VLS cells would be useful on this ship if they developed a quad-packed air defense missile. You should look catch up in this thread by scrolling back some pages. 48 universal VLS cells could yield 64 quad-packed MRSAMs, 16 VL ASW missiles (including possibly the new long-range winged ASW missile), and 16 LACMs, in addition to the YJ-12/YJ-18 ASCMs in the slant launchers.

Exactly, but where are these alleged MRSAM's based on the PL-12?

The upgraded sov's have the same search and engagement radars as the Type 054A, so they will use the HQ-16 for aerial defence and not the alleged MRSAM's. I am sure you cannot pack 4 HQ-16 in a single UVLS.

If the new quadpackable missles are going to be used by the PLAN, they will use it on the type 052D, 055 and newer generation ships with the UVLS. The HQ-16 will still pack a larger punch and have better kinematic performance than the new MRSAM's, because of sheer size.

 

[Iron Man]

Exactly, but where are these alleged MRSAM's based on the PL-12?

The upgraded sov's have the same search and engagement radars as the Type 054A, so they will use the HQ-16 for aerial defence and not the alleged MRSAM's. I am sure you cannot pack 4 HQ-16 in a single UVLS.

If the new quadpackable missles are going to be used by the PLAN, they will use it on the type 052D, 055 and newer generation ships with the UVLS. The HQ-16 will still pack a larger punch and have better kinematic performance than the new MRSAM's, because of sheer size.

I don't need to prove there are quad-packing MRSAMs. All I need to do is stipulate how a hypothetical 48-cell universal VLS would be useful in a refitted Sov that carries said hypothetical MRSAM. BTW, you don't know where these quad-packing SAMs would go. It is your opinion that they would use it on the 052D/055 and not the Sovs, and my opinion that they could and would use it in any ship that carries the universal VLS. BTW, I don't think you are using "kinematic performance" here in a way that makes sense or is germane to the present argument.

 

[FORBIN]

 

[KIENCHIN]

View attachment 38330

Is that the YJ 12?

 

[schenkus]

Is that the YJ 12?

I think this is the russian missile, the four small inlets look round to me and the small wings are further forward than on the YJ 12 (Iron man posted images of both missiles a couple of pages back).

From this angle I can't really say if this is one of the modernized ships, but I think this a ship before the modernization.

 

[jobjed]

Is that the YJ 12?

Moskit from a Sovremenny. You can see the double-barrel AK-130 main gun that of all the ships in the PLAN, only the Sovremennys use.

 

[FORBIN]

Is that the YJ 12?

Yes Moskit/SS-N-22.

 

[Iron Man]

Yes. Unless the YJ-12s use the exact same launchers as the Moskits, that is a Moskit.