PLAAF Munitions

Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions

Eek! That thing looks very different from the American PGM's, which don't have those wings. I guess these ones were built to maximize the horizontal distance the bomb can travel.

The Chinese says that it is made or designed in China. And it looks like it is made far more economically than American PGM's.

Guidance method = GPS?

Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions

Probably INS. Should be good enough for this and economical to boot.

Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions

Isn't a decent INS system more expensive than GPS guidance? Also, i seem to remember that CEP in INS only systems increases by at least 1 m for every km travelled, sometimes even more. JDAM is said to have CEP of 30 m when using only INS and shot from max distance of 24 km, when the plane itself is using GPS during launch.

Flying kit attached to this bomb is sure to deliver greater ranges, i would say easely passing 50 km, though that also means bigger CEP. But hey, if it's 100 times cheaper than a cruise missile, it's worth it.

Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions

Totoro said:

Isn't a decent INS system more expensive than GPS guidance? Also, i seem to remember that CEP in INS only systems increases by at least 1 m for every km travelled, sometimes even more. JDAM is said to have CEP of 30 m when using only INS and shot from max distance of 24 km, when the plane itself is using GPS during launch.

Flying kit attached to this bomb is sure to deliver greater ranges, i would say easely passing 50 km, though that also means bigger CEP. But hey, if it's 100 times cheaper than a cruise missile, it's worth it.

Click to expand...

USAF been testing nerw gen. of INS for JDAM,reducing the INS 30m CEP down to 12-m.
the new Chinese glide bomb are modular,I see a possible EO guide glide bomb in the future.

Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions

I bet that glide bomb post above is for Q-5 to toss bomb ports and stuff without having to get to close to the AD of the ROC. The Q-5 would have to run. a Hi-Lo-Hi to hit targets in the ROC and this would help.

Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions

Guys maybe you are refering to this new PGM that just debuted for the USAF against insurgent targets in Iraq. It is a 113kg guided bomb. Designed to cause less colatteral damage.



Thsi type PGM is perfect for small targets.

Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions

It does seem to provide a range bettering taiwanese HAWK SAM defenses, which is a big deal actually, seeing how they have 20 batteries. Not to mention countless other, shorter range sams.

There is something i don't understand though. If we assume that GPS signal will not be available, and if we assume that beidou sat network signal isn't accurate enough, how will the pilot of the plane know where PRECISELY he is when launching a bomb like this? And without knowing precisely where he is at launch, precision of the bomb itself might vary greatly. I guess that friendly radar network could track it with enough precision then upload the location for launch. Trouble is, i fear it'd have to be radar that knows its precise location, meaning a ground radar. Not only would those be more easier for enemy to attack but, due to earth curvature, it'd mean the plane would have to fly high enough to stay in line od sight of said radar during launch.

Theoretically one could add another link, using an inland positionned ground radar providing precise location to an awacs which would then be able to provide the same to the forward deployed attack planes. More links in the chain always mean more room for screwups though.

Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions

Totoro said:

It does seem to provide a range bettering taiwanese HAWK SAM defenses, which is a big deal actually, seeing how they have 20 batteries. Not to mention countless other, shorter range sams.

There is something i don't understand though. If we assume that GPS signal will not be available, and if we assume that beidou sat network signal isn't accurate enough, how will the pilot of the plane know where PRECISELY he is when launching a bomb like this? And without knowing precisely where he is at launch, precision of the bomb itself might vary greatly. I guess that friendly radar network could track it with enough precision then upload the location for launch. Trouble is, i fear it'd have to be radar that knows its precise location, meaning a ground radar. Not only would those be more easier for enemy to attack but, due to earth curvature, it'd mean the plane would have to fly high enough to stay in line od sight of said radar during launch.

Theoretically one could add another link, using an inland positionned ground radar providing precise location to an awacs which would then be able to provide the same to the forward deployed attack planes. More links in the chain always mean more room for screwups though.

Click to expand...

I'm sure pla themselves aren't going to use this, this looks to be for export market only, if they are using GPS. Maybe China has something with next generation of Beidou 1 or Beidou 2 and Glonass

Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions

Totoro said:

Isn't a decent INS system more expensive than GPS guidance? Also, i seem to remember that CEP in INS only systems increases by at least 1 m for every km travelled, sometimes even more. JDAM is said to have CEP of 30 m when using only INS and shot from max distance of 24 km, when the plane itself is using GPS during launch.

Flying kit attached to this bomb is sure to deliver greater ranges, i would say easely passing 50 km, though that also means bigger CEP. But hey, if it's 100 times cheaper than a cruise missile, it's worth it.

Click to expand...

Well, laser guidance is more expensive than both, and even more, TV guidance. Yet, the PLAAF has implemented both.

Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions

tphuang said:

I'm sure pla themselves aren't going to use this, this looks to be for export market only, if they are using GPS. Maybe China has something with next generation of Beidou 1 or Beidou 2 and Glonass

Click to expand...

So, are you saying china won't use it because it knows it can't use it? But at the same time, they know other countries might use it so they are selling it outside china only?

Doesn't galileo have just one working mode? Unlike GPS, it is not designed in such a way that owner can selectively deny just the civilian gps signals. In order to deny usage of galileo signal over one area on earth, one has to shut off the signal for everyone there.

Also, we don't know if there is any chinese money in rebuilding of glonass network which is going on at nice pace. Wouldn't be surprised if china is hedging its bets. And such an arrangement could fairly easely be hidden from third parties.

LGB and TV guidance is nice but like said, it is both more expensive and less precise in very harsh weather. Also, range for LGBs is fairly short. Speaking of TV guidance, one can basically turn the bomb into a RC gliding vehicle, no? If it has a protected enough datalink, that is. And target large enough/contrast-y enough for the operator to spot.