PLA missile defense system

Roger604

Senior Member
The US is dumbfounded for very good reasons. US conducted it's ASAT tests in the mid 80's, and China in 2007: a difference of 21-3 years (I don't remember exactly when the American tests were). Some 12-15 years later, the US conducted an anti-missile test (the last year or so of the Clinton period). China, follows precisely 3 years later. China covered 12-15 years in just 3, and went from being 20-something years behind to about 10 years behind, in just 3 years. Of course, I don't know the details of the tests and I cannot compare. But IMHO, this is exactly the kind of quick advance China needs in order to survive - peacefully - in this nasty world.

I would disagree. The 2010 test is the first integrated flight test, but it's been reported that China tested the components (without actual interception) in two previous tests.

The first integrated flight test of US ABM was in 2002 -- called "FM-4." So actually China's ABM is roughly equivalent to US in 2002.

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Looking at the pattern of US flight tests, it's likely that China will be doing tests on a regular basis from now on. It will test against missiles with separating stages (like FM-8 in 2005). Then the system will be handed over to armed services for trial (like FTM-12 in 2007).

The 2010 test probably used DF-3 as target (single stage), and a future test will be using DF-4 (two separating stages).


Consider also that there were two component tests of the ASAT before the integrated flight test in 2007. Most likely the schedule was 2005 (ASAT component test), 2006 (ASAT component test), 2007 (ASAT integrated flight test), 2008 (ABM component test), 2009 (ABM component test) and 2010 (ABM flight test).

In the future we will probably have 2012 (ABM separating missile test) and 2014 (ABM handed over to armed services for trial). The entire system should be operational by 2015.
 

Red Moon

Junior Member
I would disagree.

Yes, I am ignorant of the details on the ABM tests as well as the ASAT tests. But I was alluding the the SPEED with which this development is taking place. It is exciting for us to watch, but if you were to put yourself in the adversary's shoes, each announcement of this sort forces you to change plans, and a continuous string of announcements will put you off balance.

In this connection, I've noticed that the US media and politicians are relatively quiet, this time around. It signals, to me at least, that they may have been genuinely surprised. Back in 2007, there was at least a hint that the Americans knew what was up, or at least that some sort of test would come soon. When it took place, a huge stink was made, perhaps because they were ready, and had even prepared a false pretext (the debris from the test). My impression at that time from various things I read was that the Chinese leadership was simply not ready for THAT PARTICULAR pretext.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Ausairpower's put up an article about the ABM test...
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China’s Anti-Ballistic Missile Test: Much Ado About Nothing
Air Power Australia - Australia's Independent Defence Think Tank


Air Power Australia NOTAM
14th January, 2010

When William Shakespeare wrote his comedy ‘Much Ado About Nothing’, he could have been writing about the media’s reaction to China’s announcement that they had successfully intercepted a ballistic missile in mid-course flight.

The technology has been well with China’s grasp for many years, and given the time it takes to organise a test, this means it was either planned in advance to coincide with the Taiwan arms sales or the pieces were in place if Beijing wanted to show its displeasure at the United States or India.

Like the January 2007 anti-satellite (ASAT) test, the Chinese appear to have created another grand-strategic blunder. Far from hindering US efforts at supplying Patriot PAC-3 missiles to Taiwan, it strengthens the case; as it strengthens the case for modernizing US nuclear warheads, while also furthering the cause of US ballistic missile defence proponents as well.

The reaction of the media and many US observers reflects closely what the US Defense Science Board described as a ‘known surprise’ in their recent report on Capability Surprise, and to professionals in the China analysis community, is yet another expected step along an entirely predictable path.1

Russian Technological Assistance

The latest Surface–to-Air Missile (SAM) systems deployed by China have successfully intercepted short range ballistic missiles, using in-service Russian components, and Russian technical assistance. Assisted by Russian technicians, late last year in Xinjiang, the People’s Liberation Army successfully intercepted an SRBM during operational testing of one of its Almaz-Antey supplied S-300PMU-2 / SA-20B Gargoyle SAM systems.2

Of the SAM systems operated by China, the S-300PMU-2 has the best chance of intercepting a SRBM missile as it employs the 48N6E2 missile, which has a warhead optimised for destroying ballistic missiles, and numerous necessary radar design optimisations. All Chinese land based S-300P series SAM systems use variants of the 64N6E Big Bird rotating phased array battle management radar, which can acquire and track ballistic missiles. When employed in its ballistic missile defense (BMD) modes, the radar antenna rotation is stopped, the antenna is mechanically tilted upward, and the radar employs electronic steering of the antenna beam within a fixed angular sector.

Chinese SAM sites also employ the 36D6/ST-68U Tin Shield series, and more recently, also the new aelf-propelled 96L6E air defence and early warning radar, which supplement the more powerful 64N6, ensuring aerial target coverage is not lost when the 64N6 is operating in BMD mode.

Terminal guidance of S-300PMU2 missiles against ballistic targets is by Track-Via-Missile (TVM), utilising the 30N6E2 X-band space feed phased array illumination and guidance radar. This design is conceptually similar to the AN/MPQ-53 phased array radar used by the United States MIM-104 Patriot SAM system, but superior in key antenna design features.


When William Shakespeare wrote his comedy ‘Much Ado About Nothing’, he could have been writing about the media’s reaction to China’s announcement that they had successfully intercepted a ballistic missile in mid-course flight.

The technology has been well with China’s grasp for many years, and given the time it takes to organise a test, this means it was either planned in advance to coincide with the Taiwan arms sales or the pieces were in place if Beijing wanted to show its displeasure at the United States or India.

Like the January 2007 anti-satellite (ASAT) test, the Chinese appear to have created another grand-strategic blunder. Far from hindering US efforts at supplying Patriot PAC-3 missiles to Taiwan, it strengthens the case; as it strengthens the case for modernizing US nuclear warheads, while also furthering the cause of US ballistic missile defence proponents as well.

The reaction of the media and many US observers reflects closely what the US Defense Science Board described as a ‘known surprise’ in their recent report on Capability Surprise, and to professionals in the China analysis community, is yet another expected step along an entirely predictable path.1

Russian Technological Assistance

The latest Surface–to-Air Missile (SAM) systems deployed by China have successfully intercepted short range ballistic missiles, using in-service Russian components, and Russian technical assistance. Assisted by Russian technicians, late last year in Xinjiang, the People’s Liberation Army successfully intercepted an SRBM during operational testing of one of its Almaz-Antey supplied S-300PMU-2 / SA-20B Gargoyle SAM systems.2

Of the SAM systems operated by China, the S-300PMU-2 has the best chance of intercepting a SRBM missile as it employs the 48N6E2 missile, which has a warhead optimised for destroying ballistic missiles, and numerous necessary radar design optimisations. All Chinese land based S-300P series SAM systems use variants of the 64N6E Big Bird rotating phased array battle management radar, which can acquire and track ballistic missiles. When employed in its ballistic missile defense (BMD) modes, the radar antenna rotation is stopped, the antenna is mechanically tilted upward, and the radar employs electronic steering of the antenna beam within a fixed angular sector.

Chinese SAM sites also employ the 36D6/ST-68U Tin Shield series, and more recently, also the new aelf-propelled 96L6E air defence and early warning radar, which supplement the more powerful 64N6, ensuring aerial target coverage is not lost when the 64N6 is operating in BMD mode.

Terminal guidance of S-300PMU2 missiles against ballistic targets is by Track-Via-Missile (TVM), utilising the 30N6E2 X-band space feed phased array illumination and guidance radar. This design is conceptually similar to the AN/MPQ-53 phased array radar used by the United States MIM-104 Patriot SAM system, but superior in key antenna design features


China’s Ballistic Missile and Anti-Satellite Sensors


A Chinese ballistic missile defence system will be linked to the Second Artillery Corps' numerous ASAT sensor sites, providing tracking and targeting data for engagement of satellites and incoming warheads. There are eight satellite ground tracking stations, along with the space and satellite launch facilities at Taiyuan, Wuzhai and Jinquan, supplemented by four maritime tracking and control ships and two external ground stations in Kiribati and Namibia.4 To this must be included the PLA’s early warning and tracking radars which form part of the HQ-9 and S-300P series SAM systems.

Intercepting an incoming warhead in a test is not an unusually difficult achievement if you have missiles capable of entering the upper atmosphere and good tracking radars. The Nike-Zeus system intercepted 10 out of 14 warheads in 1962, although this was with nuclear warheads.5 The first successful non-nuclear intercept of a dummy Minuteman ICBM warhead in flight was on 10 June 1984 by an infra-red guided Kinetic Kill Vehicle (KKV), which unfurled a 4.2 metre metal net containing 36 spines.6

China’s Ballistic Missile and Anti-Satellite Hard Kill Systems


The Chinese anti-satellite system was described by the Director of the United States Defense Intelligence Agency as a SE-19 KKV launched by a modified road mobile DF-21, or its civilian derivative the KT-1, from a Chinese manufactured WS-2400 Transporter-Erector-Launcher (TEL). Being road mobile means the launcher, along with communications and maintenance vehicles, could be deployed on the best axis to intercept a satellite, and making the ASAT system virtually impossible to target before launch. PLA forces deployed in another country could bring along an ASAT as part of their corps level assets to destroy foreign reconnaissance satellites looking at their forces, even if these forces were deployed well outside Chinese territory.

The anti-ballistic missile was most likely to have also been launched using a DF-21/KT-1 booster, although a mature system would benefit from a higher velocity launch vehicle, given that in real life incoming warheads will be detected in far less time than during a test range trial.


Conclusion


The announcement that the PLA intercepted a missile in the midcourse phase of its flight was not unexpected, given its ability to intercept a satellite in space. This does not mean that China has a workable operational ABM system, but all the pieces are now in place if it chose to develop such a system to protect itself from an Indian intermediate range ballistic missile. The intriguing question is why the Politburo continues to reveal China’s new strategic capabilities, reducing the powerful weapon of surprise whilst strengthening the position of the hawks in Washington, New Delhi and Taipei. It also warns India of the strategic need to include decoys and employ other measures to reduce vulnerability of its missiles.


Notes


1. Refer ‘Report of the Defense Science Board 2008 Summer Study on Capability Surprise, Volume I: Main Report’, September 2009, Office of the Under Secretary of Defense For Acquisition, Technology, and Logistics, Washington, D.C.,
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for a discussion of other recent instances of such capability surprises, please refer May-June 2009 APA Briefs at:
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and NOTAMs
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and
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.

2. Mikhail Timofeyev. "Favorit": shooting in the Celestial’,
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Articles/ArticlesView.aspx?tabID=320&ItemID=280&mid=2891&wversion=Staging, accessed 13 January 2010.

3. Performance figures for the S-300 series are from taken from ‘S300VM (Antey-2500)’, S-300PMU-1 Air Defence Systems and Favorit Long Range Air Defence System’ in ‘Air Defence Systems’, Rosobornexport Catalogue, Rosonboronexport, Moscow, 2003, pp, 10-13.

4. ‘China’s Space Facilities’, Global Security.Org,
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accessed 21 February 2009.

5. Papp, D.S. ‘From Project Thumper to SDI: The Role of Ballistic Missile Defense in US Security Policy’, Airpower Journal, Volume One, Number Three, pp. 35 - 51.

6. Payne, K.P. Strategic Defense “Star Wars” in Perspective, Hamilton Press, Lanham, 1986.

I was particularly pissed at "The intriguing question is why the Politburo continues to reveal China’s new strategic capabilities" - to be more "open" as all the hawks in Washington have been saying about the PLA obviously - omg I seriously wonder if these guys don't think...
I mean we all have the right to be hypocrites but some people seriously abuse it...

But I find it interesting that quite a few western articles are saying China's ABM system is due to the Indian missile "threat"... In the long run I would think it would be against the US...
 
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pla101prc

Senior Member
yup it is the speed of development that is America's main concern here. i think some sources have said that in the following years there will be 1 or even two tests per year...and it will be ready for deployment within 10 years.

but i thought the americans had KKV in 1982
 

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
abuse it...

But I find it interesting that quite a few western articles are saying China's ABM system is due to the Indian missile "threat"... In the long run I would think it would be against the US...

Indian missiles status are unknown, specifically Agni 2 failed night launch, it is still under development. It would burn them, if it is suggested a future system would be deployed in Pakistan;)

This ABM would obviously be most effective against SRBM and IRBM, which India has, could this be Checkmate? Indian military will clearly see this as a threat, lets not kid ourselfs.
 

Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
About that Australian defense site:

That guy or those on-line writers know lots of information, but I question their ability to thoroughly understand their pile of information.

The Australian defense site claimed the Eurofighter Typhoon was equal to or inferior to the F-15, a couple Su-27 variants, and other fourth generation jets. Real world tests show the Eurofighter Typhoon is an amazing aircraft.

Chinese technology has improved since the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. The Australian writer(s) acts as if China is simply using old technology.

The Australian writer(s) don't understand that China's long-term goals with India and Pakistan is to build a friendly circle. China works closely with Pakistan. Recently, China has been doing a lot to increase friendly activities with India. I think last year, China and India started its first cooperative war games. I read more friendly exchanges will happen. The friendly relationship is shaky, but its better than attacking each other or trying to conquer each other.
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
The illogic of that Australian article is that if it is much ado about nothing, why would it raise alarm bells then? If everyone knew China had this capability already, why would this now call for the US to upgrade its nuclear arsenal? Other articles are pointing to the disclosure as a sign of China's attempt at transparency. This just shows someone will always find something to complain about and be alarmed over. Transparency was never the reason of their suspicion but only an excuse.
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
Indian missiles status are unknown, specifically Agni 2 failed night launch, it is still under development. It would burn them, if it is suggested a future system would be deployed in Pakistan;)

This ABM would obviously be most effective against SRBM and IRBM, which India has, could this be Checkmate? Indian military will clearly see this as a threat, lets not kid ourselfs.

lol indian times said that the indian engineers smiled at China's pathetic lil tests and say that they are working on something a lot better...

but just because China would deploy such system doesnt mean that it'll cancel out india's nuclear threat. just like i highly doubt that the US will ignore China's nuclear strength because it has the NMD
 

ravenshield936

Banned Idiot
lol indian times said that the indian engineers smiled at China's pathetic lil tests and say that they are working on something a lot better...

but just because China would deploy such system doesnt mean that it'll cancel out india's nuclear threat. just like i highly doubt that the US will ignore China's nuclear strength because it has the NMD

thats wt the indians always say, but when's the last time they produce anything indigenous and actually was successful? and i mean recent years. they can say what they want, but it's another story if anyone buys their claims
 

Roger604

Senior Member
According to psychologists, there are several stages of grief. It's funny to see these western military experts go through all these stages of grief:

First is shock -- "The Chinese did what???"

Second is denial -- "No, it can't be an ABM test, it must be an S-300 PMU or something ... yeah that's right ... ha ha"

Third is anger -- "Grrr.... those Chinese think they have ABM? Well we'll show them!"


but just because China would deploy such system doesnt mean that it'll cancel out india's nuclear threat. just like i highly doubt that the US will ignore China's nuclear strength because it has the NMD

Well, the deployment of such a system would make India's very limited nuclear deterrent totally ineffective against China. India only has SRBM called Privthi with ~300 km. They are still trying to work out the problems in their ~1500 km MRBM Agni-II, but that missile is so slender and unwieldy it's probably never going to work right. India has a lot to be worried about with China's ABM.

In this connection, I've noticed that the US media and politicians are relatively quiet, this time around. It signals, to me at least, that they may have been genuinely surprised. Back in 2007, there was at least a hint that the Americans knew what was up, or at least that some sort of test would come soon. When it took place, a huge stink was made, perhaps because they were ready, and had even prepared a false pretext (the debris from the test). My impression at that time from various things I read was that the Chinese leadership was simply not ready for THAT PARTICULAR pretext.

Red Moon, before this test NOBODY in the WHOLE political, strategic or military establishment in the West would have expected China to do an exo-atmospheric ABM test in 2010. Zero persons, guaranteed.
 
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