North Korean Military.

vesicles

Colonel
I heard something about Kim planning to give his power to his brother-in-law for eventual transition to one of his sons, possibly a younger sons. If true, nations like China and U.S. can definitely use this opportunity to stir something up. If anything, stories like "old emperor dies, uncle takes over temporarily, sons get mad amd start a coup" sound too familiar. Other nations can definitely choose a son and "help" him get the throne and eventually making him a puppet...
 

Scratch

Captain
Possibly an upcoming north korean missile or artillery test. Apparently they declared a no sail zone off their western border.

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N. Korea Declares 'No Sail' Zone Off West Coast

AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE - Published: 25 Jun 2010 09:55

SEOUL - North Korea has announced a ban on shipping off part of its west coast and South Korea is watching for any signs of missile tests, the defense ministry in Seoul said June 25.

"The move is seen as part of a routine exercise by North Korean troops, but we are closely monitoring their activities," a spokesman told AFP.

The ministry declined to confirm a report by Yonhap news agency that the no-sail zone was declared from June 19-27 near the western port city of Nampo, north of the disputed inter-Korean sea border. ...

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We may potentially see a transition of power in NK developing here.

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North Korean Party Plans Leadership Vote

By CHOE SANG-HUN - Published: June 26, 2010

SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea said Saturday that its ruling Workers’ Party would hold a rare meeting of delegates in September to elect a new party leadership, a move analysts in Seoul said was intended to help a son of the ailing North Korean leader, Kim Jong-il, consolidate his power as heir.

The gathering will be the most important meeting of the party since it held a convention in 1980 to elect Mr. Kim to its Politburo, an event that signaled his rise to power under his father, Kim Il-sung.

Saturday’s announcement, carried by the North’s state-run Korean Central News Agency, said only that the party was convening its representatives “in early September to elect its highest leading body.” ...
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
I heard something about Kim planning to give his power to his brother-in-law for eventual transition to one of his sons, possibly a younger sons. If true, nations like China and U.S. can definitely use this opportunity to stir something up. If anything, stories like "old emperor dies, uncle takes over temporarily, sons get mad amd start a coup" sound too familiar. Other nations can definitely choose a son and "help" him get the throne and eventually making him a puppet...

whatever happens its gonna be clear by september
 

Scratch

Captain
Another interesting piece. The puplic built up of KimJong-Un has apparently begun in earnest. Now he might not actually become the sole leading person of the regime, but actually a "figurehead" of a military Junta regime yielding power in the future.
It looks like the military, aware of it's role in keeping the state together, wants a bigger say.

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North Korean heir apparent elected to assembly: reports

(Reuters) - North Korean leader Kim Jong-il's son and handpicked heir has been elected to parliament but he will at best become a figurehead under a military-led collective leadership, news reports said on Tuesday quoting a source.

Kim Jong-un was elected to the Supreme People's Assembly at the elections in March last year from district 216, South Korean media quoted a Western source familiar with the North as saying.

The election may have been kept under wraps because the North has been wary of inciting discontent by publicly promoting Kim Jong-il's son as heir during economic difficulties, analysts said.

"I have been able to confirm directly from a North Korean official that Kim Jong-un has been elected from the 216 electoral district," the unnamed Western source was quoted by the Chosun Ilbo newspaper as telling reporters.

The number 216 signifies the birthday of the current leader and is reserved for persons of special entitlement, making it likely "Kim Jong" who appears on the list of elected delegates is in fact the youngest son of Kim Jong-il, the source said.

The Supreme People's Assembly is the country's rubberstamp body that formally approves decisions by the leadership but key officials of the military and the ruling party are typically its elected members.

Kim Jong-il appears to have struck a deal with the military after he suffered a stroke in 2008 to get his son accepted as the next leader in return for agreeing to take a hardline policy externally as demanded by the army, the source was quoted as saying.

"The military will probably come to the front after Kim Jong-il's death as a collective leadership with Kim Jong-un as figurehead," the source was quoted as saying.

There are indications that a new campaign to build a cult of personality for the junior Kim has begun, including the teaching of songs that try to give legitimacy to his place to succeed his ailing father, the source said.

The ruling communist party has called a rare meeting in September to elect a new leadership, a move analysts said could formally set in motion succession plans for Kim Jong-un to take over.

(Reporting by Jack Kim; Editing by Sanjeev Miglani)
 

Red Moon

Junior Member
This article is weird. Of course, there are always efforts to portray NK as other-worldly: in this case the stuff about #216; in world cup reporting, about the secret invisible communication between the leader and the players. But this article seems full of contradictions. For example:
The election may have been kept under wraps because the North has been wary of inciting discontent by publicly promoting Kim Jong-il's son as heir during economic difficulties, analysts said.
Then, later down:
There are indications that a new campaign to build a cult of personality for the junior Kim has begun, including the teaching of songs that try to give legitimacy to his place to succeed his ailing father, the source said.
Well, are they keeping things "under wraps", or are they promoting him (building personality cult)?

Moreover, if its going to be a modern style "collective leadership", why make it look like a hereditary monarchy? After all, the "collective leadership" style of government has been shown to be quite effective in some places (China, or even Vietnam), and commands a degree of respect today in the world. The article is saying the masses resent giving power to Kim Jong-il's son to begin with, so why would they bother with it?

Not only that, the whole point of a "personality cult" is always precisely to undermine such a "collective leadership". At any rate, that would be its effect.
 
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Scratch

Captain
Kim Jong-il going to China again? It would be the second time since May this year. SK authorities said Kim's train corssed the border around midnight. And he is apparently visiting his old school in NE China.
Maybe he's taking his son with him to introduce him to the chinese leadership, before that NK party meeting in September.
Or maybe Kim is just seeking relief from diplomatic pressure by SK and the US after the Cheonan sinking.
And all that while former US pres Carter is going to NK to free an american being held in prison for alledged illegal border crossing.

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Kim Jong-il Said to Be in China as Carter Visits

By CHOE SANG-HUN and SHARON LaFRANIERE - Published: August 26, 2010

SEOUL, South Korea — A special train believed to be carrying the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-il, entered China around midnight on Wednesday, South Korean officials said, setting off speculation over what might have compelled him to travel to his isolated government’s closest ally while former President Jimmy Carter was visiting Pyongyang at the North’s invitation. ...
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Kim Jong-il going to China again? It would be the second time since May this year. SK authorities said Kim's train corssed the border around midnight. And he is apparently visiting his old school in NE China.
Maybe he's taking his son with him to introduce him to the chinese leadership, before that NK party meeting in September.
Or maybe Kim is just seeking relief from diplomatic pressure by SK and the US after the Cheonan sinking.
And all that while former US pres Carter is going to NK to free an american being held in prison for alledged illegal border crossing.

Two visits in such a short span of time... this is very interesting indeed. I think Kim Jong Il is gravely sick and may need to consult China for the succession issue. This may be the only chance for China to help the North Koreans implement economic reforms.
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
economic reform only happens after kim dies so lets keep our fingers crossed =D

i hope that wishing such ill fate upon someone is not against forum rules
 

Scratch

Captain
Another article on the recent visit. This one is also briefly discussing possible future events following a regime change.

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Pyongyang's New Leader for the Old Guard
North Korea's elites prepare for a new regime they hope will look at lot like the current one.

AUGUST 29, 2010 - By ANDREI LANKOV

Kim Jong Il's apparent trip to China last week has excited more speculation over succession planning for the ailing North Korean dictator. That trip was widely interpreted as a way to introduce Kim's youngest son, Kim Jong Eun, to the leadership of Pyongyang's most important ally. But that is not necessarily the most important step in this process. Far more interesting may be the move afoot within Pyongyang to establish the younger Kim as the unquestioned next in line.

A few weeks ago the North Korean authorities announced that in September the ruling Korean Workers Party will hold a conference—essentially, a simplified version of the Party Congress. Such conferences are few and far between. The last Party conference took place in 1966 and the last Party congress met in 1980. [...]

An extraordinary gathering generally is convened only to announce an extraordinary decision—after all, the last Party Congress was convened in 1980 to announce the anointment of Kim Jong Il as heir-apparent to his father. [...]

This will be a high-stakes moment for the regime. A change of leader is bound to produce expectations of other changes. Indeed some major news outlets already speculate that Swiss-educated Kim Jong Eun might initiate some Chinese-style reforms. He is young, merely 27 or 28 years old, and has spent much of his time outside the country—all factors that could suggest a greater willingness to reform. But do not hold your breath. The young man appears to be favored by many within the regime precisely because he is the least likely person to change anything—in the short term, at least.

His apparent weaknesses are his greatest selling point so far as other leaders within the regime are concerned. As a candidate he perfectly fits the old guard, those people who now run the country together with Kim Jong Il. If Kim Jong Il is going to die soon, his youngest son, being weak, embarrassingly young and lacking a power base of his own, is almost certain to become a puppet. Whatever he secretly thinks about his country's future, for the first few years of his reign he will have no choice but to obediently sign the policy papers drafted by the same people who have prepared such papers for his father.

Indeed, there are signs as the succession process unfolds that those currently in the upper echelons of the regime are taking steps to protect their positions. A car crash recently killed Ri Che Kang, Kim Jong Il's deputy for Party affairs (North Korea has almost no traffic, but a surprising number of high-level officials die in car accidents). If this was an assassination, it could have been a result of jockeying for positions within the elite.

In a more clear-cut sign of power positioning, a North Korean rubber-stamping parliament held an unusual emergency session where Chang Song Taek, Kim Jong Il's brother-in-law, was promoted to become the deputy chairman of the National Defense Commission, essentially making him a vice-president.

The contours of a new power system are emerging. The old guard, probably presided over by Mr. Chang, will supervise a young and obedient prince. What that old guard wants is simply more of the same. They believe that North Korea, facing a rich and powerful South, cannot survive Chinese-style reform. The existence of the "dirty rich neighbor" whose population speaks the same language makes North Korea's situation very different from that of China. In the peculiar case of North Korea, an attempted reform is likely to lead not to China-style economic boom but to an East German-style collapse. The top elite also understand that in such a case they will loose everything, including, perhaps, their freedom. Hence their strong drive to keep things unchanged.

This does not mean that these efforts to preserve the status quo will succeed. Internecine hatreds and rivalries might surface, with power struggles destabilizing the regime from the top down. The young dictator might become annoyed with the old guard, or vice versa. The probability of dramatic events happening in Pyongyang is certainly increasing.

The major goal of the North Korean elite now is to drive this probability down. The new power structure is being designed to keep things unchanged, and on balance it is likely, but by no means certain, to work. Alas, for the outside world it means more years of nuclear brinksmanship, and for the North Korean people more years of abject poverty.

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Some interesting points. (Interesting part about the car accidents)
Nobody has really heared much of Kin Jong Un so far, so his position is probably really weak. Now the question is if the military top brass sees itself strong enough to move ahead without a Kim as leader, if they seek legitimacy in keeping at least new Kims face up and transform into some kind of a Junta like regime, or if the Kims have safeguards in place that will ensure continuation of their stalinist style rule.
And if Un can assert himself, while reform most likely is not really an option in the short run, his intents in the long term will be interesting. I can't imagine NK can go on like that forever, then again it holds out like that for a log time already.
I guess China would really like NK to initiate some similar economic reforms there to stabilie the country in the short to med term. But then a possible reunification still looms. With NK becoming economicly stronger, reunification might actually become more likely, as SK might be more willing to take the then smaller burden of a less underdeveloped NK.
If all that happens, then we have to see how regional players react, most importantly China. If it lets NK go into unity, wich will most likely be south dominated. And I guess it actually can't be anything else. Or if China wants to keep NK in place as a puffer state.
But those things are still years into the future.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
========================================================================

Some interesting points. (Interesting part about the car accidents)
Nobody has really heared much of Kin Jong Un so far, so his position is probably really weak. Now the question is if the military top brass sees itself strong enough to move ahead without a Kim as leader, if they seek legitimacy in keeping at least new Kims face up and transform into some kind of a Junta like regime, or if the Kims have safeguards in place that will ensure continuation of their stalinist style rule.
And if Un can assert himself, while reform most likely is not really an option in the short run, his intents in the long term will be interesting. I can't imagine NK can go on like that forever, then again it holds out like that for a log time already.
I guess China would really like NK to initiate some similar economic reforms there to stabilie the country in the short to med term. But then a possible reunification still looms. With NK becoming economicly stronger, reunification might actually become more likely, as SK might be more willing to take the then smaller burden of a less underdeveloped NK.
If all that happens, then we have to see how regional players react, most importantly China. If it lets NK go into unity, wich will most likely be south dominated. And I guess it actually can't be anything else. Or if China wants to keep NK in place as a puffer state.
But those things are still years into the future.

Really good analysis Scratch, I want to see more posts by you! I agree with pretty much everything you said. North Korea faces a choice between an existing order they know is dysfunctional and unstable, and the uncertainty of change. They seem to be choosing the devil they know, but who knows what Kim III is going to do. Perhaps he'll get in power and then move quickly against those that would control him. I don't think anyone in the North Korean system can positively control a Kim, they can only influence the actions of the leader by controlling who/what he sees. But if the new Kim really wants to do something, I don't think any insiders can stop him.
 
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