News on China's scientific and technological development.

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Junior Member
China warned them? Or advised them?

Aren't there a great deal of the same resources in Mongolia and Afghanistan but they just haven't been developed yet?

Congrats on the Nobel prize!:nana:

If you advice someone to do something so that they don't lose out or end up in a predicament later, can't that be a warning or a forewarning to be even more accurate? Rare earths are quite common around the world.It is a question of whether a particular site has enough quantity or infrastructure around it ,as with Afghanistan, to make it economical to exploit.It is reported that for something like the California operation that existed before to restart again could take up to 15 years.China was simply warning that a situation may arise where they may not always be able to meet demand if others didn't start investing in opening mines.

Your sarcasm is showing you not only to be immature but you are clearly spending your time on the wrong forum.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
delete flame bait

On the subject of Liu Xiaobo's Nobel Prize I think it is best discussed when it is brought up in China's Daily News section. However I think it is too political for this forum any ways.
 
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Martian

Senior Member
Don't feed the troll

I believe that it is best for all of us to ignore the troll. He has made four posts and none of them pertain to the topic of "News on China's scientific and technological development."

Clearly, he is here to stir up trouble. He is interested in discussing semantics, such as what does "warn" and "advise" mean. He is also interested in discussing the politics of the Nobel peace prize selection.

Neither of these topics are appropriate for this thread regarding China's scientific and technological advancement.

Please everyone, do not feed the troll. Just ignore him. Thank you.

mods note >>> ^^^ EXACTLY!!
 
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Martian

Senior Member
Chang'e II instruments composition

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eiienginemonitorcamerap.jpg

This undated photo shows the 490N engine monitor camera carried aboard Chang'e II, China's second unmanned lunar probe. China launched Chang'e II on Oct. 1, 2010. (Xinhua)


eiilaseraltimeterp20101.jpg

This undated photo shows the laser altimeter carried aboard Chang'e II, China's second unmanned lunar probe. China launched Chang'e II on Oct. 1, 2010. (Xinhua)


eiistereoccdcamerap2010.jpg

This undated photo shows the CCD Stereo Camera carried aboard Chang'e II, China's second unmanned lunar probe. China launched Chang'e II on Oct. 1, 2010. (Xinhua)


eiixrayspectrometerp201.jpg

This undated photo shows the X-ray spectrometer system carried aboard Chang'e II, China's second unmanned lunar probe. China launched Chang'e II on Oct. 1, 2010. (Xinhua)


eiittcomnidirectionalan.jpg

This undated photo shows the TT&C (telemetry, track, and command) omnidirectional antenna for Chang'e II, China's second unmanned lunar probe. China launched Chang'e II on Oct. 1, 2010. (Xinhua)


eiimiscellaneousequpmen.jpg

This undated photo shows miscellaneous equipment, developed by Beijing Institute of Control Engineering, for Chang'e II, China's second unmanned lunar probe. China launched Chang'e II on Oct. 1, 2010. (Xinhua)
 
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bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Re: Can Japan recycle its way to rare metals independence? Let's do the math.

Beyond the current 9 annual tons, I wish the Japanese the best of luck in recycling another 25,991 tons of rare metals per year.

The Japanese Dowa rare metal recycling plant processes 300 tons of materials and smelts them in a 1,400 degrees Celsius furnace to yield a paltry "150 grams of rare metals" a day per ton of material. This amounts to a total recovery of 45 Kg per day.

It requires ten days of operation to produce 450 Kg of rare metals. In one month, the Dowa recycling plant produces 1,350 Kg of rare metals. In an entire year, the Dowa plant will produce 16,200 Kg or 8 metric tons of rare metals.

The current worldwide consumption is 130,000 tons of rare metals per year. China will produce 120,000 tons of rare metals this year. China exports approximately 1/3 of its rare metals production, which is 40,000 tons. Japan consumes 65% of China's rare earth metal exports. In other words, Japan imports 26,000 tons of rare metals per year from China.

The Dowa plant produces 8 metric tons or almost 9 short tons of recycled rare metals a year. The Japanese shortfall, after recycling, is 25,991 tons of rare metals that they still need to import from China.


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"Mineweb - Dorothy Kosich - 2 days ago
Japan's manufacturers account for 65% of China's rare earth exports. Metals analyst Christopher Ecclestone of Hallgarten & Company suggested the real ..."

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"Technically difficult process

But this form of recycling is an expensive and technically difficult process that is still being perfected.

At Dowa's plant, computer chips and other vital parts from electronics are hacked into two-centimetre squares. This feedstock then must be smelted in a furnace that reaches 1,400°Celsius before various minerals can be extracted. The factory processes 300 tons of materials a day, and each ton yields only about 150 grams of rare metals.

Finding enough electronics parts to recycle has also grown more difficult for Dowa, which procures used gadgets from around the world.


A growing number of countries, including the United States, are recognising the value of holding onto old electronics."

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"Reason #2: Global Supply Controlled by China. Until 1948, most of the world’s rare earth metals were sourced from placer sand deposits in India and Brazil when South Africa became the largest producer. India and South African still produce rare earth metals today, but China has zoomed past everybody since the 1980′s.

This number is almost hard to believe, but it is absolutely true: China produces and controls 95% of the world’s production of rare earth minerals. Yup, 95%!

The problem is that China currently uses about two-thirds of what it produces, but is on a consumption trajectory where it will use everything it produces in a few more years. When that happens, the U.S. and the rest of the world will be S.O.L.!

In September of last year, China announced plans to lower its export quota of rare earth metals to 35,000 tons per year in 2010-2015.

Wait, it gets worse. China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology is considering a total ban on exports of terbium, dysprosium, yttrium, thulium, and lutetium.


It’s part of a plan that Deng Xiaoping started almost two decades ago when he said that rare earth metals would 'Do for China what oil did for Saudi Arabia.'”

Thanks for the info Martin, However with the impending shortages, why dont the scientists/engineers, develop methods to improve the recovery rate?
Costs may have been a inpediment in the past, but prices could go crazy in the next few yrs.
 

Martian

Senior Member
Japanese recycling of rare metals is futile

Thanks for the info Martin, However with the impending shortages, why dont the scientists/engineers, develop methods to improve the recovery rate?
Costs may have been a inpediment in the past, but prices could go crazy in the next few yrs.

It is a hopeless task.

1. The new Japanese Dowa rare metals recycling plant embodies current known technology. It is extremely energy intensive and requires a 1,400 degrees Celsius furnace. There are additional factors such as the complexity of separating the elements, purity issues, transportation costs from global sourcing, and waste disposal. Additionally, many residents may not appreciate the blight of a "200-foot-tall furnace" on their landscape.

2. The Dowa plant is currently capable of only recovering indium and antimony. The Dowa plant is unable to reclaim rare metals such as "neodymium, a vital element in industrial batteries used in electric motors, and dysprosium, used in laser materials." See
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3. Dowa is already encountering problems in securing the raw materials (e.g. discarded electronics products) for its recycling plant. Furthermore, the emerging scarcity of raw materials/"discarded electronics products" indicates that the cost of recycling is about to soar.

Finding enough electronics parts to recycle has also grown more difficult for Dowa, which procures used gadgets from around the world.

4. For this hypothetical scenario, let's pretend that the Japanese have achieved a quantum leap in recycling technology and their rare metals recovery rate increases by 100%. Instead of recovering 9 tons per year, the Dowa plant will now recover 18 tons per year. That still leaves a mind-boggling shortfall of 25,982 tons of rare earth metals that Japanese industries desperately need.

5. Rare earth metals possess special physics properties. The rare metals are used in electronics and high-tech products because it is necessary. While it may be possible to replace a few rare earth metals in limited areas, the trade-off for the substitution is performance, cost, and expected lifetime of the electronics or high-tech product.

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In a way, the rare earths are special transition metals, possessing many of the properties of these ... Alkaline Earth Metals - Properties of Element Groups ...

Anybody with common sense can see that recycling is a dead end. The technology does not yet exist to economically recover many rare earth metals. There is no foreseeable technology that will sufficiently boost Dowa's current annual 9 ton recovery rate of only a few select rare metals.

The Japanese picked this fight. They insisted on imprisoning a Chinese fisherman for trying to make a living near Chinese islands that the Japanese stole, through force of arms around 1895, from China.

It is only through China's largesse that Japan is able to profit from Chinese rare earth metals, used in Japan's electronics and high-tech exports.

By the way, this armchair general is still boycotting the prickly Japanese. I haven't eaten a Japanese apple-pear or Meiji chocolate almond since the fracas began.
 
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Schumacher

Senior Member
Re: Japanese recycling of rare metals is futile

..........
By the way, this armchair general is still boycotting the prickly Japanese. I haven't eaten a Japanese apple-pear or Meiji chocolate almond since the fracas began.

I salute you my friend. A man who backs up his words with actions, there are too few of people like you these days.
 
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inperson

Just Hatched
Registered Member
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Such language. I am surprised that kind of talk is allowed here.

I will be good from now on :D

>>> Mods note. It's not. But we can't read every post.

bd popeye super moderator
 
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A.Man

Major
This is on paper or just being tested.

How many countries can put the train in action? This is the bottom line.

"500kph HSR train." looks good!
 
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