Littoral Combat Ships (LCS)

Jeff Head said:

More details on all that is included in the Saudi Arabia Frigate Deal:

In addition to the ships themselves, the $11.25 billion deal includes:

• Four (4) MMSC ships (a derivative of the Freedom Variant of the U.S. Navy Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) Class) that incorporate five (5) COMBATSS-21 Combat Management Systems (four (4) installed, one (1) spare) with five (5) TRS-4D Radars (four (4) installed, one (1) spare)
• Five (5) Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) (Mode 4- and Mode 5-capable) UPX-29 (four (4) installed, one (1) spare)
• Five (5) Compact Low Frequency Active Passive Variable Depth Sonar (four (4) installed, one (1) spare)
• Eight (8) MK-41 Vertical Launch Systems (VLS) (two (2) eight-cell assemblies per ship for 16 cells per hull)
• Five-hundred thirty-two (532) tactical RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missiles (ESSM) (one hundred twenty-eight (128) installed, twenty (20) test and training rounds, three hundred eighty-four (384) spares)
• Five (5) AN/SWG-l (V) Harpoon Ship Command Launch Control Systems (four (4) installed (one (1) per ship), one (1) spare)
• Eight (8) Harpoon Shipboard Launchers (two (2) installed four-tube assemblies per ship)
• Forty-eight (48) RGM-84 Harpoon Block II Missiles (thirty-two (32) installed, sixteen (16) test and training rounds)
• Five (5) MK-15 Mod 31 SeaRAM Close-In Weapon System (CIWS) (four (4) installed, one (1) spare)
• One-hundred eighty-eight (188) RIM 116C Block II Rolling Airframe Missiles (RAM) (forty-four (44) installed, twelve (12) test and training rounds, one hundred thirty-two (132) spares)
• Five (5) MK-75 76mm OTO Melara Gun Systems (four (4) installed, one (1) spare)
• Forty-eight (48) 50-caliber machine guns (forty (40) installed (ten (10) per ship), eight (8) spares); ordnance; and Selective Availability Anti-Spoofing Module (SAASM) Global Positioning System/Precise Positioning Service (GPS/PPS) navigation equipment

Also included in this sale in support of the MMSC are:

- Study, design and construction of operations;
- Support and training facilities;
- Spare and repair parts;
- Support and test equipment;
- Communications equipment employing Link 16 equipment;
- Fire Control System/Ceros 200 Sensor and Illuminator;
- 20mm Narwhal Gun;
- Nixie AN/SLQ-25A Surface Ship Torpedo Defense System;
- MK-32 Surface Vessel Torpedo Tubes;
- WBR-2000 Electronic Support Measure and Threat Warning System;
- Automatic Launch of Expendables (ALEX) Chaff and Decoy-Launching System;
- ARC-210 Radios; Combined Enterprise Regional Information Exchange System
- Automated Digital Network System;
- Personnel training and training equipment;
- U.S. Government and contractor engineering,
- Technical and logistics support services
- U.S. Government and contractor engineering,
- Technical and logistics support.

Very comprehensive package for these vessels.

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plawolf said:

Do clients normally buy so much munitions (vs what the ships can normally carry) with warship deals?

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dtulsa said:

Not to change the subject why aren't naval guns mentioned for ship to ship engagement anymore seems as though with all the guided munitions and extended ranges available that would be a viable alternative to guided missiles just a random thought ...

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• the cost; my guess is one AShMs is for about ten of these shells, but this ammo uses a sabot and I've read somewhere the damage from this 127 mm is comparable to a hit by 88 mm mortar-shell "only" (and I wonder about the probability of that seeker finding "something" at max. range, while at 80 km distance maybe it could be time for mid-course correction if you used an AShM, but that would be it)
  
• how would you detect hits, I mean once you had a helicopter around the target, you as well might've used it to guide your AShMs (and not "just observe the splashes")

Jeff Head said:

When they are foreign, and expect they could need them and that condition could prevent them from doing so in a timely manner...yes.

I expect, over time, as they use some of these munitions up in training or in combat, that they will seek to constantly maintain the type of inventory they have established.

It drives the cost of the deal up for sure...but at the time of the purchase of the ships they are apt to gget the best deal possible...and, they have the money.

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Jura said:

... dtulsa I'll respond here; maybe Jeff will tell us where to move it if there's any interest in this topic:

I think anyway the biggest problem is range; assuming the Volcano 5" with IR sensor

you need to get within 80 km (they denote it as GLR/IR):

but before/while you do, you can get targeted by AShMs of your enemy (which I assume would be a competent Navy, not Pirates

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cn_habs said:

Didn't SA purchase some F-16s in a contract that came out to 100m/plane?

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Jeff Head said:

All major/primary guns on FFGs and DDGs could most certainly be used for ship to ship combat.

But, as Jura says, it is less likely in today's world with ASMs and Aircraft (from land or carriers) that once combat is joined, that they would proceed to that type of range.

But it is not impossible.

A conflict could start over something that happens when opponents are in near proximity to one another, or, their anit-missile defenses may work well enough for them to use up their onboard AMS and then proceed to gun range.

These things are not likely in today's world...but they could happen and you can bet that the crews on the vessels train with their guns for that possibility.

And now, with the longer range munitions, and with the Rail Guns coming on board with longer and longer gun ranges...the possibilities will increase.

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dtulsa said:

Jeff do you think it's possible to increase the range of the 57 mm gun on the lcs without major modifications and would it even be feasible

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