Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Okay...here are the four DDH flattops that the Japanese have. I will post two messages with the four in order:

DDH-181 Hyuga (Hyuga Class - Full displacement about20,000 tons)



DDH-182 Ise (Hyuga Class - Full displacement about20,000 tons)



DDH-183 Izumo (Izumo Class - Full displacement about 30,000 tons)



DDH-184 Kaga(Izumo Class - Full displacement about 30,000 tons)

...and here they are again:

DDH-181 Hyuga (Hyuga Class - Full displacement about20,000 tons)



DDH-182 Ise (Hyuga Class - Full displacement about20,000 tons)



DDH-183 Izumo (Izumo Class - Full displacement about 30,000 tons)



DDH-184 Kaga(Izumo Class - Full displacement about 30,000 tons)

Jeff Head said:

Everything I have read and seen to date regarding a potential class of four air-centric vessels has indiated it would not be CATOBAR.

I do not think so.

If it was optimized for F-35Bs with a suitable hanger, and carried a small squadron of EV-22 AEW, carrying maybe three AEW, 18 F-35Bs, and a couple of either SeaHawks or MV-22s for SAR, it would be a very capable vessel.

Here is one illustration I saw of what a JMSDF, fixed-air centric vessel might look like.

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You can see how it would be a natural extension of the Izumo class. While I know the JMSDF would love to have a couple of full on carriers...I have to imagine that the Defense Ministry would also be happy with four of those type vessels shown above.

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That is because everyone is making their assessments based on present military assets and not made any consideration of present technological capability Japan has off the shelf. Basically they are not thinking outside the box.
My predictions are made as a projection at least a decade in the future when JMSDF is actually ready to operate such asset IF it is truly required.
JMSDF will first need to create a fighter pilot training school as advance training to the present pilots then they will request the US Navy to accept fighter trainee for future deployment such was done with WAIR in which it took a decade to create an actual fighting unit. Until then they are only going to need a training facility and not an actual warship.
The support crew will also requiring on the job training on a carrier as well.

SamuraiBlue said:

That is because everyone is making their assessments based on present military assets and not made any consideration of present technological capability Japan has off the shelf. Basically they are not thinking outside the box.

My predictions are made as a projection at least a decade in the future when JMSDF is actually ready to operate such asset IF it is truly required..

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I believe that Japan certainly has the technical capability and the manufacturing capability and capacity to create the larger carriers.

Looking down stream 10-15 years, if the Japanee feel that they have to do something like this it would, IMHO, only be because they will feel that the close relationship they have with the US has faltered so badly that the US carriers would not be available to them. If that were to ever happen, then although they may be able to build such vessels, I do not think they could go it alone and keep up with the PRC.

No, having the JMSDF create 4 sea cntrol carriers that could initially carry the J-35B, and maybe later a 6th gen aircraft of their own making would show that the US-Japanese relationship remain strong and capable of complimenting one another. Such a remaining strong relationship, coupled with similar relationships to Australia and INdia and others, would demonstrate that the PRC could not keep upwith the combined weight of those relationships and therefore maintain both a qualitative and qauntitatve advantage.

The Japanese continuing a traditional role of barrier and forward ASW screening, but adding their own sea control elements to further protect it, or to work with US forces and their own in the role of protecting their Amphibious forces as well.

As I say, I believe this (the sea control carriers) is very doable now...and those vessels would then be around for the next forty years.

Jeff Head said:

The hanger is too small. The deck length is sub-optimal for optimizing take-off with decent ordinance and fule load. None of the deck is heat treated for F-35B heat issues.

Even if those issues were able to be addressed (and the hanger and deck length issues will not be addressed on the Hyuhga class), they would carry far too few F-35Bs to make it worth it...and on top of all of that, the Japanese do in fact need the ASW flagship capabilities of those vessels.

I think the Izumo could carry six airfraft f the treated the vessel...but that would also be too few.

No, read my last few posts, IMHO, the best near to mi-term answer for the JMSDF is a dedicated, fixed-air centric version of the Izumo class.

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IF JMSDF is actually going to develop a fixed wing carrier then they may retire JS Hyga at an early stage and convert her into a training vessel for take off and landing as well as training for support crew.

Jeff Head said:

Looking down stream 10-15 years, if the Japanee feel that they have to do something like this it would, IMHO, only be because they will feel that the close relationship they have with the US has faltered so badly that the US carriers would not be available to them. If that were to ever happen, then although they may be able to build such vessels, I do not think they could go it alone and keep up with the PRC.

No, having the JMSDF create 4 sea cntrol carriers that could initially carry the J-35B, and maybe later a 6th gen aircraft of their own making would show that the US-Japanese relationship remain strong and capable of complimenting one another. Such a remaining strong relationship, coupled with similar relationships to Australia and INdia and others, would demonstrate that the PRC could not keep upwith the combined weight of those relationships and therefore maintain both a qualitative and qauntitatve advantage.

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I really do not believe the US will be playing a strong active role as world police as they are doing now.
Yes, US will maintain a certain amount of military force but I also believe they would want other nations share those responsibilities as they are making request to other nations right now.
This is based on my pet theory that oil will become less and less essential as the world starts transition into a Hydrogen society. As the world starts this transition the US dollar loses it appeal as global transaction currency in which it will cut down incentive from a US security stand point.
This does not mean US doesn't care for world peace but it does mean that the US economy would have less direct link to global security.

SamuraiBlue said:

I really do not believe the US will be playing a strong active role as world police as they are doing now.
Yes, US will maintain a certain amount of military force but I also believe they would want other nations share those responsibilities as they are making request to other nations right now.
This is based on my pet theory that oil will become less and less essential as the world starts transition into a Hydrogen society. As the world starts this transition the US dollar loses it appeal as global transaction currency in which it will cut down incentive from a US security stand point.
This does not mean US doesn't care for world peace but it does mean that the US economy would have less direct link to global security.

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As such transitions occur, you will see the major compaies and entitites transition to them as well. I can easily see a Mobile, a BP, and the others transition to the prduction of such resources and all of the infrastructure neessary to make them available.

The countries will work with them and you will siply find the new technology and energy being made available by those corporations...or new large corporatins poised tot ake advantage of it.

All of them are already preparing.

I believe the geo-political environment need not necessarily be upset by thaqt...but I do agree that the US will ook to its allies to anty up more of the cost for the US of US assets in the common defense and alliances. some will do this by simply paying the US to do those things it has done in the past for less cost. Others will develop more of thier own resource to add more of thier own equipment and personnel to the equation.

When it comes to things like nuclear carriers, SSBNs, and the truly large ticket items, yIMHO, fr some time into the future the US will provide those types of assets to the alliance whle expecting and welcoming allies to povide more and more of the escorts, barrier defense, etc.

That type of thing is already happening.

I believe with things like the JApanese AEGIS vessels, the Japanese ASW flitolllas, the Australian Canberras and HObarts, the Korean Dokdo and particularly thier AEGIS vessels, you are alreay seeing it.

Jeff Head said:

As such transitions occur, you will see the major compaies and entitites transition to them as well. I can easily see a Mobile, a BP, and the others transition to the prduction of such resources and all of the infrastructure neessary to make them available.

The countries will work with them and you will siply find the new technology and energy being made available by those corporations...or new large corporatins poised tot ake advantage of it.

All of them are already preparing.

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Probably but that is not the what is at stake here. When nations starts transition to a Hydrogen society, nations would not need to rely on the few oil rich nations since Hydrogen can be generated with water and sun light. This also means that they will not require to rely the present oil Bourse dominated by NY and London which required the US dollar as transaction currency.
The US on the other hand would require to rely on it's own national economy development without the constant money flow from wall street or the city. Basically the financial sector will go through an immense make over evening the playing field. The concern would be if and when individual nations starts barring their borders exercising protectionism and/or creating a block economy.

In any case I would be long gone when this happens. I just hope the people of the future will be smarter then the people of the past when it happened before.

SamuraiBlue said:

In any case I would be long gone when this happens. I just hope the people of the future will be smarter then the people of the past when it happened before.

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Hehehe...you and me both my friend!

SamuraiBlue said:

IF JMSDF is actually going to develop a fixed wing carrier then they may retire JS Hyga at an early stage and convert her into a training vessel for take off and landing as well as training for support crew.

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Do you mean the JS Hyuga, DDH-181?

I seriously do not see them retiring her early...they need her for her ASW command ship role for one of those flitillas.

But they may well task her to help train.

But if it is for fixed-wing...particularly F-35Bs...then they would have to do a lot of refitting and heat treating to the ship make that possible in terms of truly training to operate as they would on the actual vessels they would ultimately build.

I would see them rather building the first one of those vessels to spec, and then using that for the at sea training, and having a land-based training facility to get their personnel started.