J-20... The New Generation Fighter
- Thread starter Delbert
- Start date
- Status
Re: New Generation Fighter
100% correct crobato.
I'm happy you told him that,... I did not want to disapoint him.
"Fan Boys" cause rumors to be turned into "near truth" by fantasizing their dreams on the internet military forums. And with the tools available to PS any photo they have been real busy over the last several years.
"Fan Boy" speculation over a PLAN CVN is what caused me to join this forum in April 2005 in the out of control EZ Board days. All I was doing was looking for the truth about the PLAN CV programme. I'm still waiting to see the first PLAN CV....
In that time we've seen the USN commission one CVN, Have one near compleation and start two others. Not to mention one more LHD. We've also see Japan, S.Korea, Spain & Italy send new CVs to sea while we wait patiently for the PLAN to send the mighty Varyag to sea..
Time marches on.
100% correct crobato.
I'm happy you told him that,... I did not want to disapoint him.
"Fan Boys" cause rumors to be turned into "near truth" by fantasizing their dreams on the internet military forums. And with the tools available to PS any photo they have been real busy over the last several years.
"Fan Boy" speculation over a PLAN CVN is what caused me to join this forum in April 2005 in the out of control EZ Board days
. All I was doing was looking for the truth about the PLAN CV programme. I'm still waiting to see the first PLAN CV.... In that time we've seen the USN commission one CVN, Have one near compleation and start two others. Not to mention one more LHD. We've also see Japan, S.Korea, Spain & Italy send new CVs to sea while we wait patiently for the PLAN to send the mighty Varyag to sea..
Time marches on.
Last edited:
Maggern
Junior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter
I find it strange that fan art comes such a long way before getting somewhat stopped. In most cases, it is an obvious fake, and any human should be able to distinguish fake from real and reveal the sham for what it is early in the process.
PS: Congrats on 6000 posts popeye
I find it strange that fan art comes such a long way before getting somewhat stopped. In most cases, it is an obvious fake, and any human should be able to distinguish fake from real and reveal the sham for what it is early in the process.
PS: Congrats on 6000 posts popeye
Re: New Generation Fighter
The problem with PS and fanboy CG is that they are information pollution that tends to distract from the real pieces of valid information and leaks. The faux stuff makes the work of finding the genuine stuff all the more harder. Granted, I've also seen the work of people who are studying aerodynamics in the universities also make their own 3D CG models, but in order to explain their aerodynamic concepts, not for fan purposes. These works provide a tiny window of what's going on with aerodynamic research in China, though in a much more broader sense, not necessarily about a fifth gen fighter.
The problem with PS and fanboy CG is that they are information pollution that tends to distract from the real pieces of valid information and leaks. The faux stuff makes the work of finding the genuine stuff all the more harder. Granted, I've also seen the work of people who are studying aerodynamics in the universities also make their own 3D CG models, but in order to explain their aerodynamic concepts, not for fan purposes. These works provide a tiny window of what's going on with aerodynamic research in China, though in a much more broader sense, not necessarily about a fifth gen fighter.
Asymptote
Banned Idiot
Re: New Generation Fighter
From what I have read so far, China does not have the capability to develop 5th generation fighter. It is still busy digesting the lessons learned in 3rd generation (eg. J-7, J-8, and HAIG L-15) and 4th generation (J-10) fighter design. It is still upgrading and improving the J-8 III and touting it because that's what it is most capable of currently. The next 10 years will probably see a lot of improvments to the J-10 (J-10 II, J-10 III?? like the J-8 naming series?) as it start to learn and work out all the flaws and discover new ideas for it, it is until then, that China will finally be able to get on with J-XX series of fighter. A look at other aviation development like the American with F-14, F15, F16, F18 series can tell you it took american decades for them to digest and learn and work out various flaws in the design (various incremental improvments eg. F-14 A~D, F-16 A~D (various blocks), .....F-15 A~E, F-18 A-F... etc etc), and finally matured and move on to the next generation fighters (with ground work on various experimental design, and bombers like F-117, B-2). Same can be said with the Russians, with their Su-30 Series (Su-30, Su-33, Su-35, Su-37) and Mig-29 Series (Mig-29, Mig-35... etc), although Russian started design of next generation fighter a decade ago (Mikoyan Project 1.44), but it was premature effort in my opinion, it did not have the knowledge base and technological infrastructure, and finance to do it. But right now, I think Russian finally can move on, there isn't anything much to improve on the Su-30 or Mig-29 series, unless they move on to a new airframe or powerplant.
From what I have read so far, China does not have the capability to develop 5th generation fighter. It is still busy digesting the lessons learned in 3rd generation (eg. J-7, J-8, and HAIG L-15) and 4th generation (J-10) fighter design. It is still upgrading and improving the J-8 III and touting it because that's what it is most capable of currently. The next 10 years will probably see a lot of improvments to the J-10 (J-10 II, J-10 III?? like the J-8 naming series?) as it start to learn and work out all the flaws and discover new ideas for it, it is until then, that China will finally be able to get on with J-XX series of fighter. A look at other aviation development like the American with F-14, F15, F16, F18 series can tell you it took american decades for them to digest and learn and work out various flaws in the design (various incremental improvments eg. F-14 A~D, F-16 A~D (various blocks), .....F-15 A~E, F-18 A-F... etc etc), and finally matured and move on to the next generation fighters (with ground work on various experimental design, and bombers like F-117, B-2). Same can be said with the Russians, with their Su-30 Series (Su-30, Su-33, Su-35, Su-37) and Mig-29 Series (Mig-29, Mig-35... etc), although Russian started design of next generation fighter a decade ago (Mikoyan Project 1.44), but it was premature effort in my opinion, it did not have the knowledge base and technological infrastructure, and finance to do it. But right now, I think Russian finally can move on, there isn't anything much to improve on the Su-30 or Mig-29 series, unless they move on to a new airframe or powerplant.
Last edited:
Semi-Lobster
Junior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter
There is no such thing as a J-8III. The latest variant ofthe J-8II is the J-8F which is only a continuation of the upgrades begun on the original J-8II series since the first J-8D came out. Frankly I'm not really sure what aircraft you are referring to. The J-8H? J-8F? J-8IIM? J-8C? J-8ACT?
There is no such thing as a J-8III. The latest variant ofthe J-8II is the J-8F which is only a continuation of the upgrades begun on the original J-8II series since the first J-8D came out. Frankly I'm not really sure what aircraft you are referring to. The J-8H? J-8F? J-8IIM? J-8C? J-8ACT?
Semi-Lobster
Junior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter
Well to be specific, the J-8IIM is more or less an export model of the J-8H, which has an inferior engine, radar, weapons payload etc. compared to the J-8F
Also I wouldn't really categorise the L-15 as a third generation because it is simply not a fighter, it is an advanced trainer to teach J-10 and J-11 pilots how fly high performance aircraft, it is not meant to be a fighter, it could be weaponised but there is actually quite a big difference between a weaponised trainer and and actual purpose-designed fighter aircraft. Conceivably the L-15 could converted into a fighter like the Korean T-50 into the F/A-50 which are to replace its F-5 fleet, but no plans other than brief mentions for the export market have confirmed anything of the sort for the L-15.
I would comment some more but I'm very tired
Well to be specific, the J-8IIM is more or less an export model of the J-8H, which has an inferior engine, radar, weapons payload etc. compared to the J-8F
Also I wouldn't really categorise the L-15 as a third generation because it is simply not a fighter, it is an advanced trainer to teach J-10 and J-11 pilots how fly high performance aircraft, it is not meant to be a fighter, it could be weaponised but there is actually quite a big difference between a weaponised trainer and and actual purpose-designed fighter aircraft. Conceivably the L-15 could converted into a fighter like the Korean T-50 into the F/A-50 which are to replace its F-5 fleet, but no plans other than brief mentions for the export market have confirmed anything of the sort for the L-15.
I would comment some more but I'm very tired
Re: New Generation Fighter
From Huitong's site
J-13 is the first generation of Chinese shipborne fighter aircraft being developed by both 601 Institute and SAC for PLAN's first aircraft carrier. It was speculated originally that the aircraft would be based on J-11B (as J-11BJ, see above). However recent evidence suggested that J-13 is very likely to be a new semi-stealth design. The twin-engine heavy fighter design might have benefited from a similar but more advanced stealth design developed between 1990 and 2000 by SAC/601 Institute to compete for the J-14 project (see below). It might also have benefited from the development of J-11B, such as similar radar and electronic systems as well as the improved WS-10A turbofan engine. Some key shipborne aircraft technologies such as landing/navigational systems are believed to be based on Russian Su-33 and were bought from Russia and Ukraine. Overall J-13 is believed to be in the same class of American F/A-18E. Some parts of J-13 such as landing gear have already been manufactured. The first prototype is projected to fly within 2-4 years.
From Huitong's site
J-13 is the first generation of Chinese shipborne fighter aircraft being developed by both 601 Institute and SAC for PLAN's first aircraft carrier. It was speculated originally that the aircraft would be based on J-11B (as J-11BJ, see above). However recent evidence suggested that J-13 is very likely to be a new semi-stealth design. The twin-engine heavy fighter design might have benefited from a similar but more advanced stealth design developed between 1990 and 2000 by SAC/601 Institute to compete for the J-14 project (see below). It might also have benefited from the development of J-11B, such as similar radar and electronic systems as well as the improved WS-10A turbofan engine. Some key shipborne aircraft technologies such as landing/navigational systems are believed to be based on Russian Su-33 and were bought from Russia and Ukraine. Overall J-13 is believed to be in the same class of American F/A-18E. Some parts of J-13 such as landing gear have already been manufactured. The first prototype is projected to fly within 2-4 years.
- Status