J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

[Figaro]

Tphuang hasn't posted in a long while so I can't get a reading on what his thoughts are. I wouldn't take the insider's words as gospel as he works in Liyang, not Liming, so he would only get second-hand or nth-ordinate-hand accounts of Liming's progress. He even says that himself; that of all the engine programs in China, he knows the least about the WS-15. Nonetheless, the secondary/tertiary sources that he has access to, while not perfect, are still more reliable than our conjecture.

The 2016 ground test rumour is ambiguous as to whether it's a test of just the engine core or a complete tech demonstrator. The

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

doesn't contradict the insider's accounts at all. The article's individual-in-question said this: "the engine's development is proceeding well. We have also begun to design a next-generation aviation engine with a thrust-to-weight ratio that is much higher than that of current types." I'm interpreting that to mean there are two separate engines; one that will soon be mounted on J-20, and another next-generation engine, probably WS-15. So you're agreeing with me in that the J-20 will likely mount WS-10Bs before WS-15 is ready.

As an aside, the documentary from CCTV that said the J-20's engines were manufactured by Liming was ridiculed by literally every single experienced PLAAF watcher on Chinese BBS, including Huitong. There is no doubt that current J-20 engines are from the AL-31 family, even if the exact variant is unknown. And there is serious doubt that Liming is able to manufacture the AL-31 in its entirety because if they could, why buy from Russia?

He even says that himself; that of all the engine programs in China, he knows the least about the WS-15.
I know; I saw his post about the WS-15's nozzles being serrated and stubby.
he knows the least about the WS-15
I'm surprised that he's even on CJDBY if he's a Liyang employee. Isn't aeroengine development too sensitive in China to post on internet forums (he even posts his picture although it may be fake). I know some people's weibo accounts got shut down after they posted "confidential" photos and information about the PLA. Surely, his account would be scrutinized?
The

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

doesn't contradict the insider's accounts at all
I believe it is referring to the WS-10IPE variant instead of the WS-10B, giving thrust of around the 150kN level which is comparable to the F-22. But regarding the second part, I disagree that it's referring to the WS-15 because it's probably unlikely that it's still in design phase, especially if we heed the ground testing rumors. Btw, any indication of when the WS-10IPE is going to be mounted on the J-20 from the Liyang "insider"?
CCTV that said the J-20's engines were manufactured by Liming was ridiculed
For the record, I never suggested the Liming documentary to be true or did I used it as evidence. It is probably more likely a mistake (especially given the CCTV-4 channel) than a confidential leak.
And there is serious doubt that Liming is able to manufacture the AL-31 in its entirety because if they could, why buy from Russia?
Some say the nozzles and some other parts of the engine (FADEC?) are manufactured in China. Additionally, I haven't heard of any engine transactions between Russia and China in recent years, meaning the latter probably has a large supply. Surely the Russian media would gloat about a large engine sale? Regarding the variant theory, I side with @Deino because I don't believe the J-20 to be "drastically" under-powered in its current flight regime, corresponding with the AL-31FM2's high thrust.

 

[Figaro]

One wonders why there's such a big variation between this chart and Carlo Kopp's J-20 RCS chart specifically on the frontal aspect (assuming both at 90 degree elevation).

On Kopp's Chart, a big chunk of the frontal aspect varies between -22.5 Dbsm and -40.0 Dbsm (@ 8 to 12 Ghz). The NCSIST chart varies between -7.0 Dbsm and -23.0 Dbsm without ever going down below -23.0 Dbsm (@10 Ghz) level at the same frontal aspect. This would be like the 2 charts coming from 2 different aircraft, which brings up the question of the feasibility of methodologies that was used since you can't have that much of a variation in RCS measurement for the same aircraft under the same condition.

I believe Kopp's analysis is more detailed and hence accurate (I believe that he placed the J-20's stealth as slightly ahead of the F-35 but lower than the F-22). Regardless, the J-20 should really have serrated nozzles similar to the F-22 for RCS reduction in the back. There was that one J-20 prototype with those special RCS reducing nozzles but I can't seem to remember which one. Hopefully, CAC does make additions in the J-20B with this part.

 

[danielchin]

a new photo( I think) of the power plants, are they WS-10IPE?

 

[Deino]

Clearly a WS-10.

 

[Insignius]

Jagged nozzles, it seems.

And what is that gap? TVC?

 

[Deino]

I think with this image showing the first ever WS-10 on a J-20 it is now clearly proven that so far neither any operational J-20 uses a Taihang and that also means that WS-15-theory just crashed like a house of cards.

Why would anyone fit a WS-10 if the WS-15 should be operational "from day one"?

Deino

 

[Totoro]

So basically we may see j20a produced with ws10 for the next 10 years, followed by some improves j20b variant sporting ws15 in second half of 2020s.

 

[Deino]

We may ... however I also expected to see the J-10B or at least the C powered by WS-10 after we saw 1035 ... after we saw the final two J-10Bs ... but still nothing.

 

[Hyperwarp]

a new photo( I think) of the power plants, are they WS-10IPE?
***

Excellent! First photo of a WS-10 on a J-20. Question is whether it is the WS-10IPE? IPE versions will give at least 145 kN in afterburner, but the earlier series max out at 137 kN. Nozzle certainly looks like an early version of LOAN.

 

[Totoro]

Well we heard ws10 had issues with spool up time in the past and more recently issues with constant power generation. It is good ws10 is being tested on j10 but who knows when will it be ready. Could be some years still.