Hong-Kong Protests

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5:18PM
Swimming against the tide

A man holding a Chinese flag walks along Causeway Road, videotaping himself and playing English songs. He is speaking to himself, and protesters are avoiding him. Some passers-by call him a ‘red dog’.
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Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Look at these thugs going to the college/university administration office demanding their certificate or something.. then demand to see principle.

They were more threatening when a soft-spoken english lady came out!

If these thugs talk to me like that in my college, they will be kicked out with no recourse!

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Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
That is an interesting point. You could be right. The CIA, MI6, or other dirty tricks organizations in the West may have been planning the riots for when Hong Kong returns fully to the mainland. But by having the riots now, twenty-seven years too soon, the dirty tricksters are prematurely revealing their plans and giving the mainland practice in countering them. The impatience is very like Trump.

I don't think they planned this for a particular time. It is more of a planned waiting for an opportunity!

They know that once the kids in the education system been brain washed, it will be forever. Noticed, most of these kids are post 1997. As they wont have dare to radicalised them before hand in case it is used against them to demand Hong Kong remain British, and everyone is entitle to come to Britain! I know, I was one of the young students in the colonial time!

So once these kids have been radicalised, they can be used time and time again! All it needs was direction, focus, support and money! Something which they have in plenty!

The cause this time the trade war, (as posted earlier, Trump advisor Kimberly) the excuse is freedom and democracy (ironically, it is the freedom they have and enjoyed that allows them to go on all these beatings and destructions)!

These trained radicals are not going anywhere (as for one, no one will take them, including their paymasters) so they remain in Hong Kong waiting for the next battle cry!
 
Lol. No pun intended!

I wasn't going to answer his post, because it just doesn't deserve our time to respond to it. But since you did, I'll respond to you.

I noticed first it's from SCMP, a rag that is just slightly better than Apple daily.

2nd, it try to give an impression to their readers that the British populace welcome foreigners. Lol. Still no pun intended.

Let's take a deeper look. First, anyone living in the UK will tell you one of the reasons the Brexit party won was because of the xenophobia that had been going around in the UK. let me tell you, having experienced this first hand, it is not a pleasant experience! So if the SCMP trying to convey a message of Britons welcome you with open arms to those delusional Hong Kongers. They would have a rude awakening!

Then I look deeper in the SCMP's "survey"! And hay bingo! There you have it. A survey of 2000 people! If I did that in my essays at university and claimed that is a representative sample. I'll get a D minus!

And finally, this is the problem with our friend. He post stuff without critical analysis and evaluation. Often with lol. Or now I read. Etc.

As I keep saying to my students, you can't just read stuff. In Chinese is "read death books"! (Chinese know what I mean, unfortunately I don't have chinese key board on my new phone).

You have got to make sense of what you are reading. And the only way to do that is critical analysis and evaluation. And this is important, come up with some conclusion or opinions. Often his posts does neither!

Indeed this deserve a LOL.

Apparently an online survey of 2000 people commissioned by an advocacy group. HK People deserve better editors and journalist than those employed SCMP.
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as for Johnny Patterson quoted by the article, what credentials

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Last edited:

KYli

Brigadier
What question?

You think I am repeating, but that is only because you keep attempting to slide around the fundamental fact that many people are no longer showing up for the demonstrations-cum-riots. You do your utmost to excuse that inconvenient observation, attempting despite that to assert that most Hong Kongers still support the cockroaches, and I laugh in your face.

What else is evidence but observation? If you think observations are worth little, then you deny all legal proceedings, all judgement, all science.

Large numbers of people are no longer showing up. This fact is trivial only if one is being ironic.

I hate to say it but I told you so.

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Hong Kong sees biggest protests since democrats' election boost
HONG KONG (Reuters) - Vast crowds of black-clad demonstrators thronged Hong Kong on Sunday in the largest anti-government protests since local elections last month that boosted the pro-democracy movement seeking to curb controls by China.

It was the first time since August that the Civil Human Rights Front - organizer of million-strong marches earlier in the year that paralyzed the Asian finance center - had received authorities’ permission for a rally.

It estimated turnout of 800,000 while police said 183,000.

Chants of “Fight for freedom! Stand with Hong Kong!” echoed as demonstrators, from students to professionals and the elderly, marched from Victoria Park in the bustling shopping district toward the financial area.

As dark fell, some protesters spray-painted anti-Beijing graffiti on a Bank of China building. Riot police stood on guard, restrained as protesters yelled “dogs” and “cockroaches.”

The former British colony of 7.4 million people reverted to Chinese rule in 1997. It is governed under a “One Country, Two Systems” formula guaranteeing freedoms not allowed in mainland China, but many fear Beijing is tightening the screws.

“It’s Christmas time soon but we’re not in the mood to celebrate anymore,” said Lawrence, a 23-year-old student.

He held a poster saying: “My 2020 wish is universal suffrage”, a reference to demands for an open vote on the city leader, currently the unpopular Beijing-backed Carrie Lam.

China blames the six months of unrest on interference by foreign governments including the United States and Britain.

On Saturday, two leaders of the American Chamber of Commerce in Hong Kong were denied entry to the neighboring Chinese city of Macau, without explanation.

LAM UNDER PRESSURE
Lam says she has heard the people but has not offered concessions despite a resounding win for pro-democracy parties in local elections two weeks ago. They secured almost 90% of 452 district council seats in a record turnout.

At Sunday’s protest, chants of “five demands, not one less” rang out, referring to demands ranging from Lam’s resignation to an amnesty for detainees.

“I will fight for freedom until I die because I am a Hong Konger,” said June, a 40-year-old mother dressed in black seated on the grass in Victoria Park.

Police said they arrested another 11 people, aged 20 to 63, confiscating weapons including army knives, firecrackers, bullets and a semi-automatic pistol, the first seizure of a handgun during the protests.

Once rare for Hong Kong, violence has escalated throughout the year, as protesters have torched vehicles and buildings, hurled petrol bombs, dropped debris from bridges onto traffic and vandalized shopping malls. Police have responded with tear gas, water cannon and, at times, live fire.

Protests coalesced in June over a now-shelved extradition bill that would have allowed people to be sent to mainland China for trial, then evolved into broader democracy calls.

There was no comment on Sunday from Hong Kong’s government, though the day before it pledged to “humbly” listen and accept criticism. The new police boss promised a flexible approach to protests, with “both the hard and soft approach.”

Since June, Hong Kong has seen more than 900 demonstrations, processions and public meetings, many ending in violent confrontations. Nearly 6,000 people have been arrested.

There has, however, been relative calm since the Nov. 24 vote. While demonstrations pop up on an almost daily basis, at times disrupting businesses, schools and transport, life for most goes on as normal.
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Just an interesting paper I found relevant to the discussion of protest attendance numbers. It is measuring previous years, but still relevant.

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The importance of protest size can be seen in our survey data: subjects in our experiment believe there is a higher likelihood of protest success if a protest is larger (see Online Appendix Figure B.10). It can also be seen in the differences between July 1 march organizers’ turnout estimates and the turnout estimates of the Hong Kong police. Organizers consistently exceed independent estimates of July 1 march size (and police estimates consistently fall below), with differences between the two reaching the tens or even hundreds of thousands (see Online Appendix Figure B.1).
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
From my perspective, Xi departed or not departed from Deng's Doctrine isn't that big a deal. As for factions, there are no ideological factions within the party that I know of. That doesn't mean there are no factions and different in interests.
Agreed, except I personally prefer not to use faction to describe different opinion, because faction IMO means rebellious group. Of course, the west prefer the word faction for the same reason symbolizing the rebellious nature which fit their wish and narrative. This is the reason that I insist on picking on every word so not to let the west to set a trap of word.
Xi is portrayed as a strongman and to some extent a dictator(Bloomberg's debacle). In the last few years, western media have intensified their attacks on China in OBOR, trade wars, HK and Xinjiang. I can sense that even in China there seems to be people feel that Xi is tightened control of many things. We can argue that it isn't true but to some people these are what they see or what they brainwashed themselves to see. Jimmy Lai and his friends don't see things from our angle so they come to a different conclusion. From Jimmy Lai's perspective, Xi is vulnerable and he senses opportunity.
Xi is taking a tougher and tighter approach than his predecessors, Hu and Jiang. That is broadly accepted view within China according to my conversations with people in state entities. These same people also expressed to me their opinion that Hu and Jiang were too relaxed in handling the spreading of western ideology and influence to the point of allowing activities of defaming Mao to live within China, such as the teacher "Yuan Tengfei" to call Mao Zedong a butcher. So there is no need to argue whether Xi is tightening thing, he is tightening many things, and rightly should do so in view of many Chinese including myself.

As being portrayed as a dictator, Xi is not the only one, all Chinese leaders are portrayed by west to be dictator. Jiang Zemin was called a dictator to his face by Mike Wallace in CBS interview. Once again showing that Xi and not alone, not the first, won't be the last. It is called "original sin" as being different from the west. Chinese doesn't care much but it means a lot to people in the west and HK for propaganda purpose.

Of course non of what I am saying above has any impact to how Jimmy Lai and his friend in the west think and act. One can not stop a bugler trying "不怕贼偷,就怕贼惦记". They will wish and try anything, rational or irrational.
 
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