Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

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airsuperiority

Captain
MwRYum said:
Tell that to those who wave the Colonial Colors, and the HKU student bodies that in their last 2 publications promote separatism. HK people and media really not doing enough to assure Beijing that these are merely stint by a minority.

Besides, throw CY out is easy (for Beijing) but who to replace him, the interim CE for the next 2 years till 2017? Supposedly that'd fall to Carrie Lam but the insurgents' demands also call for her removal, remember?



That's the kind of thing hardliners at Beijing are looking for. This is why I say there's no hope.
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Joshua Wong was booed heavily, and even me disagreed with him, because they represented the extreme factions a lot of time in the past. (They, scholarism, was founded cuz of nationalistic education. they're still good that time and i liked them, until they went extreme, which i then despised them for. funnily enough, this time he's displayed some better and proper leadership, and he became a much more defended icon by the people(cuz he's also a student and represents the student). honestly, at one point in one of my classes, i thought about inviting him for a dialogue cuz i knew the influence he possessed, and i hope and wanted he be someone responsible to lead the students. who'd know that today that he's one of the first guys who gave this movement machine a push? and myself would become much more engaged? and hk would go on this road?)
 
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airsuperiority

Captain
MwRYum said:
Tell that to those who wave the Colonial Colors, and the HKU student bodies that in their last 2 publications promote separatism. HK people and media really not doing enough to assure Beijing that these are merely stint by a minority.

Besides, throw CY out is easy (for Beijing) but who to replace him, the interim CE for the next 2 years till 2017? Supposedly that'd fall to Carrie Lam but the insurgents' demands also call for her removal, remember?



That's the kind of thing hardliners at Beijing are looking for. This is why I say there's no hope.
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My dad said maybe Tseng Tsun Wah (financial minister) because most parties are ok with him.

I also wonder about Tseng Yuk-Sing, the chair/dais of LegCo. He's been seen quite fair.
 
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airsuperiority

Captain
xiabonan said:
The people of HK, if they're wise enough, should stay away from foreign press.

This kind of stories will only do them a disservice, than adding pressure to Beijing.

If there's anything I'm certain, it is that the CCP will never succumb to so-called "international pressure".

More often than not this will only make Beijing more determined.

Also, these kind of stuff/stories are not only sensitive to Beijing, they're also sensitive to the ordinary Chinese.

Do you know how many Chinese netizens actually felt that the Beijing government should crack down on the protesters after knowing that CNN is making a big fuss out of this?

It's simple: if CNN and such, is on your side, then they're not going to be on your side.

They're not going to listen to you. They're not going to even try to understand your needs, or what exactly are you protesting for.

They're going to automatically assume this is another case of "foreign intervention in China's internal affairs" and "the West trying to demonise China and hurt China's sovereignty".

The Chinese see ideas such as "sovereignty" and "administration rights" as noble, if not more noble, as Americans value "freedom" and "democracy".

If they see it as something that will hurt China's sovereignty, then that's it. There's no room for negotiation.

Their sentiments are fuelled by recent reports of HKers trying to break into PLA's camp in HK, and some people marching with colonial flags.

No matter how much HKers are going to explain that this isn't about independence, the mainlanders will just dismiss it as lies.

P.S. I've used "they" throughout this comment so this is only describing, it doesn't reflect my views.
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Good point. I do recognize these values you mentioned, and I can quite understand and see what you mean. And yea I remember there are those 2 idiots who went in. They are the special kind of stupid.(I think they're seriously stupid, and I never supported them. I actually hated them, even back then. Being in SDF I kinda understand how the PLA and they're like, and honestly a lot people knew PLA Garrison did a good job and appreciated that. It's just that since this movement began, people are honestly, genuinely, scared they will be deployed. )

Anyways, there's a lot of fear by HKers towards the CCP and PLA being deployed. The mistrust is really, certainly, a lengthy history of its own.
 
Engineer

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airsuperiority said:
I'm sorry that's how you had come to see or associate us.
In fact, it's pretty sad that even when we say that's what we're targeted against, you think it's an excuse, or think we mean something else. After all, if you can't be opened to accepting that's what people thinks when they are literally expressing their thoughts genuinely, I feel that's a bit tragic.
I do wonder if you guys had ever really spent time in culture or with the HK communities and understand the culture and people.
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You are on this forum long enough, and should have seen the true color behinds the statement "we are only against the Chinese government, not the people".

airsuperiority said:
Furthermore, favoring China isn't a problem. It's the lack of understanding or desire to understand our side of the story, or believing what you think is what's true for us then dismissing our thoughts. In other words, can't accept the stories of the primary actors and rather use your thoughts of being outside to judge and determine what they are.

Next, if favoring China means the expense of our welfare, then you can't be surprised that we have to defend ourselves.

Honestly, that's a lot of bias you have a lot towards us.
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You words about lack of desire to understand the other side and dismissing differing opinions describe the current Hong Kong society so perfectly.
 
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airsuperiority

Captain
xiabonan said:
I belive what you say but in this day and age it's these people who go to the extremes that grabs attention and angers the mainlaners. Just like how a few tourists can make millions of mainland tourists all look bad. I believe that those with bad manners and do things such as peeing or passing in the public are definitely only a minority of all mainland tourists if you do the statistics, but these people are enough to destroy image of all Chinese people.
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I totally agree. Mainland Chinese ain't always visually distinctive, so the good folks acted like the normal people and no one know of the good ones until they demonstrate themselves. However, defecating sticks out, and when they scream and kick in mandarin or mainland-accented cantonese(not kidding, because taiwanese can pick up cantonese faster for some reason), then you know who gets the short end of stereotype. Regardless, I don't support racism.

If you guys see the things I used to criticize about HKers, then you will know I also called my own kind out too a lot. (and of course so yea that's why if you see me criticizing china, it really isn't about bashing. it's just me being how i am and saying what i think is right or criticizing what is wrong, regardless who you are.(and if you consider my attitude is the same to my parents, then you can understand it's really nothing personal)
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
airsuperiority said:
My dad said maybe Tseng Tsun Wah (financial minister) because most parties are ok with him.

I also wonder about Tseng Yuk-Sing, the chair/dais of LegCo. He's been seen quite fair.
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Those two? Well for one thing they're the more shrewd of them lot, but that also implied they know better to NOT get into that bullseye. So I really wonder what manner of promises Beijing or whatever can offer to change their minds.

And airsuperiority...just out of odd curiosity, mind if I risk going off topic a bit to ask you what's your opinion on the group that called themselves "Civic Passion"? Isn't that group charged into the roads on Sunday, snowballed this whole thing?
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

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airsuperiority said:
I totally agree. Mainland Chinese ain't always visually distinctive, so the good folks acted like the normal people and no one know of the good ones until they demonstrate themselves. However, defecating sticks out, and when they scream and kick in mandarin or mainland-accented cantonese(not kidding, because taiwanese can pick up cantonese faster for some reason), then you know who gets the short end of stereotype. Regardless, I don't support racism.

If you guys see the things I used to criticize about HKers, then you will know I also called my own kind out too a lot. (and of course so yea that's why if you see me criticizing china, it really isn't about bashing. it's just me being how i am and saying what i think is right or criticizing what is wrong, regardless who you are.(and if you consider my attitude is the same to my parents, then you can understand it's really nothing personal)
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ML Chinese tourists have started coming to NZ in greater numbers and I'm totally receptive to the annoyance at them.

PRC really needs to have some kind of short "how NOT to act when you're abroad" video for anyone that wants to go overseas... Or maybe just some TV advertisements on how NOT to act ANYWHERE. Lol... T__T
 
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Bltizo said:
To be fair, if enough safeguards can be put in place to assure China that a fully democratic HK government and CE won't even think about independence, that may be a way to entice Taiwan to eventually return to the fold.

There are definitely some voices out there who would love to see another TAM, but the small difference here is that... well, riot police exist in China now ._.
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Of course some would love to see another 1989, just so they can say "See? See? I told you China is bad." These people would mostly be from the West.

The more scary part concerns with few individuals in the pro-democracy camp in HK. These individuals seem overly fascinated by the events 1989. These people fantasied about being the then movement leaders, or see themselves as the successors outright. The constant push for a confrontation with Beijing, and now for a bloody confrontation with Beijing, may be a reflection of these individuals' desire to recreate 1989 to play out their fantasies.
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
Bltizo said:
ML Chinese tourists have started coming to NZ in greater numbers and I'm totally receptive to the annoyance at them.

PRC really needs to have some kind of short "how NOT to act when you're abroad" video for anyone that wants to go overseas... Or maybe just some TV advertisements on how NOT to act ANYWHERE. Lol... T__T
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That won't work, instead send the offender and his/her entire family to gulag for 10 years would be enough to scare the senses into them. Seriously though, if they weren't behaving properly at home don't expect them to do it aboard. Singapore faced the same problem during the 90s IIRC, because the newspapers and government ministers keep telling people to behave properly...that said, Chinese government need to raise this to a higher level.
 
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