Attacking with tanks against prepared enemy positions has always been like this. Even back in WW2. Except back then it was infantry with towed anti-tank guns that destroyed tanks instead of what is available now.
The War in the Ukraine
- Thread starter SampanViking
- Start date
There was apparently preparatory strike in shape of intensive barrage of artillery and Himars prior to the offensive. The counter battery tho is for some reason absent. which kinda weird.
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hmm i found this :
Well it's claimed that it's Leopard throwing turret. hard to make out from that distance tho. Is that possible ? Yes as right beside the driver is the main ammo rack for the leopard. If weapon can reach that place, which likely if it's artillery or bombs. It will cook off just as lethal as T- series.
It was reported that the Ukranians received DM53 rounds with their Leopards 2, which doesn't have an inert propellant unlike DM63 and can as easilly cook off as Russian ammo
The burning Leo has been identified as a Leopard 2A6 as well
Some optimism.
It is hard to say. People focus too much on the equipment but never on the training, military culture and organization. Assuming the footage of the wrecked Bradley’s and Leopards is real, one can argue that the losses were caused by the lack of combined arms training, knowledge and leadership along with various other variables such as the higher ups’ adherence to the old Soviet doctrine and, worst of all, lying in training which most likely translates into lying on the battlefield. All of this is mentioned by former US Special Forces officers who are in Ukraine training battalion and company officers as we speak in this article:
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I think we just got another reminder of how important air control is.
I'm not even saying superiority, just local control with unjammed drones and low level helicopters flying around. Yikes.
Also training. Don't bunch up, cover each other, ect...
I'm not even saying superiority, just local control with unjammed drones and low level helicopters flying around. Yikes.
Also training. Don't bunch up, cover each other, ect...
Ukraine doesn't have enough aircraft for mounting Storm Shadow, basically only SU-24s can mount them and Ukraine doesn't have enough SU-24s.
The Russian group claims that the Ukrainians are bombarding their positions with M142,so the Ukrainians are already trying very hard.
News from Zaporozhye afternoon 9th:
1) For more than a day now, intense fighting has been going on at the Rabotino-Verbove line. Assault groups of the 65th brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine have been trying to break through the defenses of the 291st regiment of the RF Armed Forces since late at night. Ukrainian formations concentrated their efforts specifically on one area, sending reserves and manpower to capture one strong point. Because of this, the fighters of the RF Armed Forces retreated to reserve positions. However, after that, artillery and aviation worked out against the enemy, who was trying to gain a foothold on the lines taken. As a result, the AFU retreated with heavy losses.
2) Toward morning, the enemy resumed attacks on Rabotino with the forces of 65 mechanized brigade. At the same time, an armored group of 47 mechanized brigade on Leopard 2A4 tanks and Bradley infantry fighting vehicles began an assault on strongholds between Rabotino and Verbov. The strike group of the 65th brigade was able to squeeze out the Russian units from the first position: at the moment, artillery is actively working on the Ukrainian formation. To the right of that, the servicemen of the RF Armed Forces destroyed one Leopard tank and three Bradley tanks, knocking the forces of the 47th mechanized brigade back to the starting lines.
3) At the Kamensky Armed Forces, they tried to dig in the village of Lobkove, pulling armored vehicles there. The reconnaissance groups of the RF Armed Forces discovered the accumulation of the enemy and called for fire on him. As a result, the 2nd company of the 128th Guards Rifle Brigade retreated, and Lobkovoe itself again found itself in the “gray zone”.
NOTE: it’s 2nd or 3rd time the first line in Lobkovoe changed hands in the past 5 days. First line of defense changes hands sometimes. For now not a single position was taken and being held by the AFU for longer half a day.
Source: Russian Telegram Channel "ZA_FROHT" (Zaporozhian front)
1) For more than a day now, intense fighting has been going on at the Rabotino-Verbove line. Assault groups of the 65th brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine have been trying to break through the defenses of the 291st regiment of the RF Armed Forces since late at night. Ukrainian formations concentrated their efforts specifically on one area, sending reserves and manpower to capture one strong point. Because of this, the fighters of the RF Armed Forces retreated to reserve positions. However, after that, artillery and aviation worked out against the enemy, who was trying to gain a foothold on the lines taken. As a result, the AFU retreated with heavy losses.
2) Toward morning, the enemy resumed attacks on Rabotino with the forces of 65 mechanized brigade. At the same time, an armored group of 47 mechanized brigade on Leopard 2A4 tanks and Bradley infantry fighting vehicles began an assault on strongholds between Rabotino and Verbov. The strike group of the 65th brigade was able to squeeze out the Russian units from the first position: at the moment, artillery is actively working on the Ukrainian formation. To the right of that, the servicemen of the RF Armed Forces destroyed one Leopard tank and three Bradley tanks, knocking the forces of the 47th mechanized brigade back to the starting lines.
3) At the Kamensky Armed Forces, they tried to dig in the village of Lobkove, pulling armored vehicles there. The reconnaissance groups of the RF Armed Forces discovered the accumulation of the enemy and called for fire on him. As a result, the 2nd company of the 128th Guards Rifle Brigade retreated, and Lobkovoe itself again found itself in the “gray zone”.
NOTE: it’s 2nd or 3rd time the first line in Lobkovoe changed hands in the past 5 days. First line of defense changes hands sometimes. For now not a single position was taken and being held by the AFU for longer half a day.
Source: Russian Telegram Channel "ZA_FROHT" (Zaporozhian front)
Footage from the same place, but another angle.
I don't buy those excuses.
According to American government media, when Ukraine is performing well, that is because they used western tactics. And now that they're getting destroyed, it's because they "can't let go of their slavic roots" (lmao).
This offensive was planned by NATO and no different from other offensives planned by NATO. They moved in and tried to use speed and numbers. But this time, there was enough Russian forces to make a defensive line.
I can guarantee you that if this offensive had taken ground, any credit for taking said ground would immediately be given by US state sources to be due to "NATO training and tactics".
What we are seeing here is the baptism of NATO equipment in its first real shooting conflict. "Battles" against shamefully weak opponents that barely have RPG-7s as anti tank and foes that had a handful of SA-5s as their entire national air defense is nothing but a joke.
Just as Russia had not proved itself by stomping on south ossetia and chechnya and the reality of Russian doctrines were shown in the opening battles of Ukraine, we are now seeing the reality of NATO ground tactics being shown, for the first time against a real enemy that has all the basic weapons, command and logistics of war.