PLA Anti-Air Gun systems

[BoraTas]

Another thing, I looked up Chinese 25mm ammo (25×183mmB) and it looks like the ammo is only used in PLAGF. A quick search says it's a bored-out and longer-cased derivative of the 2A14's 23x152mmB cartridge (RU 23mm)

So my question is, why bother developing that ammo when there are similar ones out there? For example, Russian 23mm or NATO 25mm are both available, and China does use RU 23mm in the PLAAF (J-10 cannon) and most importantly in PLAGF (Type 85 Towed AA the ZU-23-2 copy).

To me, it feels like a waste of time and effort, especially when you already have comparable ammo in your logistic chain.

According to this source, the cartridge of the 625 is 25 x 287 mm.

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Even if it is not true and the 625 is using the 25 x 183 mm I can see reasons why they wanted to develop a new round.

- Make your caliber unique so others can't use it.
- Adopt a longer bullet for better ballistics.
- If you want to include a proximity fuse, 2 mm can be quite important.
- AFAIK all the previous Chinese 23 and 25 mm were shorter munitions with the exception of the semi-rimmed 25 x 218 mm.

If they developed a 25 x 287 mm cartridge, it means one thing. They want muzzle speed. If the 625 is really for C-RAM that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Builder]

" According to this source, the cartridge of the 625 is 25 x 287 mm ".
While I am not an expert on ballistics, but a 30 mm must have more
mass then the 25x287 mm although the latter may have a higher
velocity then the 30 mm. Is it possible that the 25x287 mm is almost
as powerful as a 30 mm? I mean that a higher velocity compensate
for the lack in mass and the the distructive power is comparable.

 

[Hitomi]

According to this source, the cartridge of the 625 is 25 x 287 mm.

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Even if it is not true and the 625 is using the 25 x 183 mm I can see reasons why they wanted to develop a new round.

- Make your caliber unique so others can't use it.
- Adopt a longer bullet for better ballistics.
- If you want to include a proximity fuse, 2 mm can be quite important.
- AFAIK all the previous Chinese 23 and 25 mm were shorter munitions with the exception of the semi-rimmed 25 x 218 mm.

If they developed a 25 x 287 mm cartridge, it means one thing. They want muzzle speed. If the 625 is really for C-RAM that makes a lot of sense.

I think ballistics requirements make the most sense as AFAIK there are no proximity fuzes cannons below 37mm (honestly this one is sketchy since this was only implied that the Chinese developed VT ammunition for their 37mm though I have not seen actual documenting), otherwise it's 40mm minimum. The 35mm used in the GDF are pre-programmed directionally fragmented ammunition. (Essentially a really advanced time fuzed round) So I do not think a VT ammo is the reason here.

On the other hand, a longer 25mm round can hold a better performing sabot (don't quote me on this, I am just thinking in terms of tank APFSDS penetrators) which are more commonly used in C-RAM operations.

The "unable to import theory" doesn't sound right because they already have RU 23mm before developing the 25mm ammo, and I don't think there's such a big difference between 23mm and 25mm in AA performance (both in speed and payload).

IMO PLA wanting to go its own way sounds much more plausible. It's around the era when PLA chose to go its own way despite having off-the-shelf designs to be adopted. For example, developing 5.8mm ammo even though 5.45mm/5.56mm can be adopted.

However, in this case, they already adopted RU 23x152mm with the ZU-23-2 copy, so I don't get why they still want to develop the 25mm ammo.

p.s. I made a mistake on PLAAF 23mm. It uses a shorter 23x114mm, not 23x152mm like ZU-23-2.

IIRC the PLAGF did receive and use the longer 23x152mm with their type 85s (licensed ZU-23s) so I would like to think the PLAGF thought the 23mm performance was insufficient for their future APC (They developed this cannon for the WZ-551 APC first right?) cannon especially after reviewing what the Russian BMP-2s and other NATO IFVs were using.

I personally think the 25mm ending up as an AA cannon was because of its availability and influences from the SIDAM demonstration the PLA observers got in Italy.

 

[BoraTas]

" According to this source, the cartridge of the 625 is 25 x 287 mm ".
While I am not an expert on ballistics, but a 30 mm must have more
mass then the 25x287 mm although the latter may have a higher
velocity then the 30 mm. Is it possible that the 25x287 mm is almost
as powerful as a 30 mm? I mean that a higher velocity compensate
for the lack in mass and the the distructive power is comparable.

It is not really about destructive power in air defense. It is about effective range. Speed is how you get effective range. It is especially more true against missiles and RAM which are really fast.

 

[by78]

A new close-in defense system mounted on a 6x6 chassis, apparently intended to take out low-altitude targets such as drones and missiles. Not sure if this is for export or for domestic use. Does anyone have more information?

 

[siegecrossbow]

LMAO.

 

[Temstar]

LMAO.

View attachment 109608

Found a gif, it's even funnier:

Yamato aiming main battery loaded with Type 3 anti-air shell against incoming USN torpedo bomber, colourized 1944

Original CCTV reporting where that footage came from:

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[T-U-P]

Found a gif, it's even funnier:
View attachment 109647
Yamato aiming main battery loaded with Type 3 anti-air shell against incoming USN torpedo bomber, colourized 1944

Original CCTV reporting where that footage came from:

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Oh my god that's actually from CCTV?! I thought it was done by a fanboy that happen to catch a J-20 landing and the AA guns were a prop right in front of the camera.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Oh my god that's actually from CCTV?! I thought it was done by a fanboy that happen to catch a J-20 landing and the AA guns were a prop right in front of the camera.

The plane was about to land anyway. Why not take advantage and squeeze the last little ounce of value out of the sortie.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Welcome to the burrr squad.