Chinese semiconductor industry

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horse

Major
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Please, enlighten us also about the superior GPU.

The powerful supercomputers and vast data centers you talk of are literally based on the tech that is going to be restricted.

Anyway, I think it's nearly impossible to restrict commerical hardware from being easily accessible vis indirect channels.

GPU market right now is super over supplied as-is.

I read about that Chinese GPU in this very thread.

Research it yourself. Lots to learn.

As for the data centers and supercomputing, I do not believe you got a clue of what you are talking about.

China's data centers that they have operating, and its vendors are selling, and the supercomputers, those belong to China. Any new bans will not affect what China already owns and is operating.

Any future products and development in data centers and supercomputing, that will be American free. China and America agree on that point. No more US tech in Chinese products in the future.

Huawei is big player in the data center as a vendor. Very doubtful they have many US parts in those products.

Go do the research yourself to verify everything written here in this post.
 
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horse

Major
Registered Member
What's stopping Chinese companies from buying a bunch of GPUs off eBay. Pricier?

1. Nothing.

2. It was surprising with regards to the Huawei bans, that Huawei did not go the guerilla war route. Ren Zhengfei used to be PLA, when people's war was still a thing. LOL. Yet, after the bans, Huawei did not resort to guerilla war tactics of secretly buying chips from the underdog.

They already had a stockpile of chips. And in their estimation, that should last until they solve their chip bottleneck.

That point, no one talks about. They could have went the guerilla war route, smuggling chips, but they did not even bother. Huawei were that confident in their projections. The stockpile will last so long, and by then they would have made progress on the chip front.


Last year, or six months ago, it was reported Chinese firms were stockpiling chips.

Today, it appears to be issues with oversupply, which will make stockpiling chips even easier.

Buy time, prepare for the future. Do that right, and they will have no need to deal with the Americans anymore in terms of IC.
 

henrik

Senior Member
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As the world is entering recession and TSMC idling some of its machines, where can you people buy cheap GPU cards?
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
China does not need to ban US chips, just place tariffs on them.

There is no good reason not to place tariffs on anything made by Qualcomm or Apple. I think China should have put tariffs on Qualcomm and Apple products the moment they sanctioned Huawei.
China wants its market to be as open as possible, which is why you rarely (or never?) see China seriously sanctioning any Western company.

And besides, why should the gov intervene when the private sector has already taken the hint and it is localising
Putting tariffs doesn't magically speed up localisation. They are already running at full speed trying to replace western suppliers
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
China wants its market to be as open as possible, which is why you rarely (or never?) see China seriously sanctioning any Western company.

And besides, why should the gov intervene when the private sector has already taken the hint and it is localising
Putting tariffs doesn't magically speed up localisation. They are already running at full speed trying to replace western suppliers
Correct bro, why act at their level and give them the satisfaction, just tell them to Fxxk off and ignore, in that way we will infuriate them even more...lol the onus is on us and these noises are a distraction. The Chinese are now used to these threat and had become numb. :)
 

Nilou

New Member
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It truly is hilarious how the United States have actually been the ones to motivate Chinese companies to localise and increase R&D when the Chinese government has been trying for years. All the moves to limit free trade in this sector have been initiated by the United States, exposing their lack of confidence. At this point every semiconductor company must realise that the future of the free market lies not with USA but with China. The fact that US and European companies fear new restrictions by the US Government rather than any Chinese policy says everything.
 

HereToSeePics

Junior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
What's stopping Chinese companies from buying a bunch of GPUs off eBay. Pricier?

Because those GPUs like the recently restricted Nvidia A/H 100 are intended for datacenters where the buyer purchases hundreds(if not thousands) of them for massive server farms like this(with each rack holding dozens of the GPUs).


1664861755292.png


You won't find sellers on Ebay selling these GPUs in those quantiles because each of them cost 30k+ USD and the upfront capital for that kind of inventory is beyond the typical Ebay seller.

Not to mention the redflags it will raise with a multimillion dollar Ebay order with a highly publicized embargoed chip.
 

european_guy

Junior Member
Registered Member
Correct bro, why act at their level and give them the satisfaction, just tell them to Fxxk off and ignore, in that way we will infuriate them even more...lol the onus is on us and these noises are a distraction. The Chinese are now used to these threat and had become numb. :)

IMO China should just keep doing one thing only: working hard and keep pushing head down for localization, like they are already doing.

The next 2/3 years will be the most critical and difficult, China is halfway through, just has to keep moving forward under the rain, that is going to become a storm soon.

Any retaliation would only backfire now. It will give US a hint of weakness from China side, and they will immediately double down with great joy.

Instead, to keep buying American chips and equipment, while at the same time localizing at full speed, is a proven good tactic that still pays off: without the strong lobbying by US firms, China would have already been "Huawei-azed": US neocons hawks are moved by blind rage and hate, and are reckless.

IMO current US administration is one of the most savage and dangerous because when political leadership becomes a figurehead chaos and disruption will rule (and we in Europe are experiencing this first hand).
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
@european_guy,@hvpc and I approved this message. :)

EU semiconductor investment not nearly enough, warns chip boss​


We won't get there by simply funding Intel and TSMC into building fabs here, says NXP CEO​

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Mon 3 Oct 2022 // 13:30 UTC

EU funding to boost the region's semiconductor industry under the European Chips Act is nowhere near enough investment to meet the targets set for 2030, according to the head of one of its largest chip companies.
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A bright spot in Europe's chip ambitions: ASML, the world's largest supplier of lithography systems for chip manufacturers, is still growing
The warning comes from Kurt Sievers, chief executive officer of Netherlands-based chipmaker NXP Semiconductors, who said the amount of funding the EU wants to invest into the semiconductor industry simply won't enable it reach the self-declared target of claiming a 20 percent share of the global semiconductor market by 2030.
Speaking at the Global Foundries Technical Summit in Dresden, Germany, Sievers said it would require hundreds of billions of euros to be able to make this target, according to
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, much more than the €43 billion (c $42 billion) that was put forward when the European Chips Act was
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in February.

"We have calculated that we would need €500 billion investment in Europe to reach the 20 percent market share goal formulated in the EU Chips Act," the boss of NXP, which makes
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for many of the contactless transport cards in Europe, is quoted as saying.
Reaching 20 percent of the global semiconductor market from today's estimated 10 percent would require a tripling or quadrupling of the chip manufacturing capacity represented among EU countries, a daunting task, especially given the ambitious expansion plans of chipmakers such as TSMC elsewhere in the world.
Andrew Buss, research director for European Enterprise Infrastructure at IDC, said he agreed the current level of funding on offer seemed a little on the low side, but that in an undertaking of this sort it was important to start somewhere.
"Once it does start, you soon see things start to happen," he said, mentioning the American government's
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, which has already proved successful in starting the ball rolling on an ambitious program to overhaul its own semiconductor industry.
However, building up a credible world-class semiconductor industry requires more than just pouring money into the sector, he adds, calling for careful planning to deliver the skills needed to design advanced semiconductors as well as develop Europe's own manufacturing processes instead of relying on companies like Intel and TSMC to build chip fabrication plants here, as is happening with
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in Germany.
"Reaching 20 percent of the global semiconductor market would be a challenge no matter how much money you throw at it," Buss said.
However, Europe does have one advantage in its favor, and that is the presence in the region of ASML, a key supplier of vital equipment required for semiconductor manufacturing, Buss added.
The amount of investment being made available by governments to boost chip manufacturing has been questioned before, with Gartner VP for Semiconductors & Electronics Richard Gordon
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that even the US CHIPS Act investment is likely to be inadequate.
"$52 billion is a drop in the bucket compared with what the semiconductor companies like Samsung and Intel are themselves planning to invest over the next decade. It's hundreds of billions. I don't think people realize how much investment chip fabrication requires," he said. ®
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
From my previous post, the pundits are saying that the Chinese are wasting money, pouring countless billions with little to show for, well the European Company are saying the $42 billions are not enough they need 500 billion Euros. Now with souring energy price we can surmise that 20 percent share of the global semiconductor market by 2030 is a pipe dream, even that of the US equivalent may see a reduction in total investment from their original statement. So what about China? will they scale back their investment?

Opportunities with China’s semiconductor push​

By
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18. July 2022
China semiconductor
China semiconductor industry is expected to scale higher with Beijing's plan to invest $150 bn by 2030. (Source: Shutterstock.com)

Semiconductors are often called ‘new oil’ in the context of geopolitics due to their increasing use in almost all facets of our life. Former US President Donald Trump believed sanctions would isolate Chinese tech firms from accessing high-end chips, but instead, the China semiconductor industry has received a push as they strive to develop on-par chips domestically.
China is far from becoming a leader in semiconductor supply but makes up for around 60% of the global consumption of chips, as per data from China-focused research firm
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. However, the country does not have the technological prowess to produce high-end chips used in flagship electronic devices of various consumer-focused companies.

Efforts to boost China semiconductor sector​

Beijing’s efforts to improve its domestic chip supply and become independent is being hampered by the US, as seen by its efforts to block Dutch firm ASML Holding NV from selling China its chip manufacturing equipment. Despite this, trade group SEMI in a report said that China was the world’s largest semiconductor manufacturing equipment market in 2021, with sales increasing 58% to $29.6 bn.
China’s efforts to become self-sufficient saw its domestic chip manufacturing growing by 33.3% in 2021, as per data released by the National Bureau of Statistics. This is a big jump compared to 2020 when China’s integrated circuit (IC) output rose 16.2%. Separately, the Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA) sees China’s chip-making industry to contribute 17.4% to total global sales by 2024, up from 9% in 2020.
Semiconductor manufacturing has jumped in the country as companies are enjoying additional benefits from the government in the form of tax breaks, incentives, and subsidies to scale up production. Last year, Beijing limited tax breaks and state support only to companies that have a breakthrough. Earlier this year, Shanghai’s municipal government announced new policies to attract semiconductor talent and is introducing a new subject called Integrated Circuit Science and Engineering.
Overall, China plans to invest about $150 bn by 2030 to ramp up its semiconductor manufacturing capacity. The only issue is that while China looks to catch up with Taiwan, South Korea, and the US — these countries are already on the way to developing advanced chips and expanding manufacturing capacity.
 
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