Chinese Economics Thread

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
China's overarching goal for centuries, which goes on to this day, has been to catch up and surpass the West. It's implicit as well in discussions on China that the West has advantages China does not have (or else the fear of sanctions and the grumbling about export controls); yet whenever you even slightly suggest learning from the West and adopting the policies they implemented to be successful, everyone loses it.
For centuries? What centuries? Prior to the 18th century China's and India's economies were the largest in the world you lovely dope. It was only when both countries were invaded, then looted, territories taken where the respective countries began their drastic downfall.

Fear of this, fear of that lol as if your side are breathing with a sigh of relaxation relief. Man, you need to shut the jolly with your b..s.. Take your lovely advice where the sun don't shine.

Keep your poison, shitty advice to yourselves bro, and let China handle their own country's future. They have manage to do an excellent job so far and achievements that your Western countries failed to do when peak Covid-19 hit. Congratulations though, your Western economies are doing so well, food prices are so cheap, energy bills are the lowest in the world and are plentiful. And you folks are about to enter Moscow sometime this winter. Keep it up champ.
 

hhuang41

New Member
Registered Member
For centuries? What centuries? Prior to the 18th century China's and India's economies were the largest in the world you lovely dope. It was only when both countries were invaded, then looted, territories taken where the respective countries began their drastic downfall.
Latter half of the 19th (自强运动), 20th (赶超, 四个现代化) and the 21st (赶超 (again)). Saying that China is the victim, indeed gives it away. How was China able to be invaded and looted if they weren't behind? It was because China was technologically behind that invasions and looting could have happened; China stopped Japan in the Imjin Wars, why couldn't China stop Japan in the 1940s? It was the technological difference.
Fear of this, fear of that lol as if your side are breathing with a sigh of relaxation relief. Man, you need to shut the jolly with your b..s.. Take your lovely advice where the sun don't shine.
Did UnionPay stop a substantial amount of business activity in Russia because it didn't want to get kicked out of SWIFT? Yes or no?
Keep your poison, shitty advice to yourselves bro, and let China handle their own country's future. They have manage to do an excellent job so far and achievements that your Western countries failed to do when peak Covid-19 hit. Congratulations though, your Western economies are doing so well, food prices are so cheap, energy bills are the lowest in the world and are plentiful.
Indeed. Food and energy costs are both at near all time low percentages of US household budgets. ~30% of Chinese household budgets are for food, ~13% of US household budgets are for food and US household budgets have more meals out at restaurants than China's household budgets. Similar shares for energy despite Americans using far more electricity and driving more miles.
And you folks are about to enter Moscow sometime this winter. Keep it up champ.
Ukraine is shelling Crimea so...
 

BlackWindMnt

Captain
Registered Member
Latter half of the 19th (自强运动), 20th (赶超, 四个现代化) and the 21st (赶超 (again)). Saying that China is the victim, indeed gives it away. How was China able to be invaded and looted if they weren't behind? It was because China was technologically behind that invasions and looting could have happened; China stopped Japan in the Imjin Wars, why couldn't China stop Japan in the 1940s? It was the technological difference.

Did UnionPay stop a substantial amount of business activity in Russia because it didn't want to get kicked out of SWIFT? Yes or no?

Indeed. Food and energy costs are both at near all time low percentages of US household budgets. ~30% of Chinese household budgets are for food, ~13% of US household budgets are for food and US household budgets have more meals out at restaurants than China's household budgets. Similar shares for energy despite Americans using far more electricity and driving more miles.

Ukraine is shelling Crimea so...
Yeah if mortgages and rent keep increasing faster than their groceries or eating out bills than percentage wise it will always be lower. Speaking in percentages without absolute values says absolutely nothing. A middle school student that paid attention during arithmetic classes can tell you that.

How much debt and saving does a Chinese and American household have, convert it to hours of work saved and loaned. If a Chinese household can save 24 hours of work each month vs an American house hold needs to loan 16 hours of work each month than in absolute value the Chinese household has a better life compared to the American household. I just say hours of work instead of dollars or renminbi because for the working class savings means how many days can i bridge if shit the fan before i need to really panic and loose my home or have to sell stuff..
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
For centuries? What centuries? Prior to the 18th century China's and India's economies were the largest in the world you lovely dope. It was only when both countries were invaded, then looted, territories taken where the respective countries began their drastic downfall.

It's more accurate to say that China and India didn't undergo an industrial revolution, which then meant they fell behind and were vulnerable.
 

hhuang41

New Member
Registered Member
Yeah if mortgages and rent keep increasing faster than their groceries or eating out bills than percentage wise it will always be lower. Speaking in percentages without absolute values says absolutely nothing. A middle school student that paid attention during arithmetic classes can tell you that.
US and Chinese households both spend ~20% of their income on housing. Of course, median and average US home sizes are much larger than those in China, so total US consumption is much higher and shows real US incomes to be higher as well.

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How much debt and saving does a Chinese and American household have, convert it to hours of work saved and loaned.
US household debt/GDP: 80%
China household debt/GDP: 63%

Of course, US interest rates are lower than that in China so debt servicing costs end up being around the same
If a Chinese household can save 24 hours of work each month vs an American house hold needs to loan 16 hours of work each month than in absolute value the Chinese household has a better life compared to the American household.
Median US workweeks are shorter than median workweeks in China. US households work less, are able to buy more things (cars, houses, and meals out) and have a welfare state of sorts in case of emergencies, which reduces the need for savings.
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Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
US and Chinese households both spend ~20% of their income on housing. Of course, median and average US home sizes are much larger than those in China, so total US consumption is much higher and shows real US incomes to be higher as well.

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US household debt/GDP: 80%
China household debt/GDP: 63%

Of course, US interest rates are lower than that in China so debt servicing costs end up being around the same

Median US workweeks are shorter than median workweeks in China. US households work less, are able to buy more things (cars, houses, and meals out) and have a welfare state of sorts in case of emergencies, which reduces the need for savings.
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US is wealthier than China. No argument there. Still has a lot of catching up to do. But that gap is narrowing. Remember what China was like just 30 years ago vs. now.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Economic growth is a misleading term right now. So much of China's economy is geared to being a warehouse for the rest of the world. It makes no sense to continue making toasters, washing machines and so on only to receive dollars in return. If that sector gets bigger, how does that benefit China? China has accumulated more dollars than it needs and there is nowhere to put them. It's all going to get sanctioned and seized in a few years so you might as well give hard working factory workers a break. Lockdowns also resulted in a temporary increase in birth rates in the west.

Notice how none of these lockdowns affect any of the industries that benefit the domestic population like infrastructure.

The other benefit is low economic growth also puts a lot of pressure on western industry, which is totally dependent on Chinese manufacturing.

In a few months I bet America will start pressuring China to end its zero covid policy.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Economic growth is a misleading term right now. So much of China's economy is geared to being a warehouse for the rest of the world. It makes no sense to continue making toasters, washing machines and so on only to receive dollars in return. If that sector gets bigger, how does that benefit China? China has accumulated more dollars than it needs and there is nowhere to put them. It's all going to get sanctioned and seized in a few years so you might as well give hard working factory workers a break. Lockdowns also resulted in a temporary increase in birth rates in the west.

Giving "hard working factory workers a break" actually means more unemployment

As for accumulated dollars, the best thing is to use these dollars to purchase assets or make investments in the Global South.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Giving "hard working factory workers a break" actually means more unemployment

As for accumulated dollars, the best thing is to use these dollars to purchase assets or make investments in the Global South.
No it doesn't:

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China is able to do it despite having an internal rural-urban migration level which dwarfs the migration of any western country.

If it was uncontrolled lockdowns, that unemployment rate would skyrocket.
 
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