055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

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optionsss

Junior Member
We are getting off-topic, so I will just state my final thoughts. The current crop of 6000-ton FFG/DDG really does not impress me. For their price, they either lack the VSL count (FREMM) or sensors (KDX-II), and it's not like they have a large hanger for 2 helicopters.
For PLAN, these is no need to pick this comprised design choice. Either go a bit bigger, which they alreay have with the 052D, have a nice balance between ASW, AAW, and land strike and 7000 ton is really at the bottom limit of multi-purpose ship size. Or just save money, and stay 054A size.
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
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I see most of these requirements as not required. Inspection and recon shouldn't be done with small UAV at close range. That is far too late. Artillery spotting UAV can be done with a separate ship. There is no need to put that on a Frigate or Destroyer.
Well, I basically named modern trends. You may check all frigates with basic design younger than ~2010 - all of them pay a lot of attention to off-board platforms.
Frigate, in modern navies, is a standard multi-role combatant. So placing this mission(which includes some of the most common and mundane tasks for a modern warship) on it is simply logical, for many navies - there is no alternative (they are their only warships large enough and ranged enough to do it).
For PLAN... 052Ds can't(no space, not enough growth potential to add it), 055s are clearly too important for the purpose, 054As can't.
056As, curiously, can to some degree(as they are relatively new) - but they're small and coastal.
Thus hypothetical 054B is an obvious candidate.
Remember that these USVs and USuVs are relatively autonomous. Personally I think the next generation of ships should have a modular mission bay incorporated
USVs aren't - i.e. either they're completely autonomous(and thus do their own stuff), or there is a big problem with their underwanter communication and navigation. Same is true for flying craft (they need fuel and rearming)
Yes, 'mission bay' is close to the truth for those spaces.

for those operations, a dicicated anti mine ship with 052d and 054a escort would be much better.
Both are fine. But the point is, such functions are now becoming necessary literally everywhere - from peacetime inspection of suspected pirate ship to major high seas engagement.
It's prudent to fit it on a suitable combatant. FREMM, Type 26, Constellation etc all fit in.
Smaller/light frigates (say, Mogami, 20386) follow the same pattern, too.
 

Lethe

Captain
We are getting off-topic, so I will just state my final thoughts. The current crop of 6000-ton FFG/DDG really does not impress me. For their price, they either lack the VSL count (FREMM) or sensors (KDX-II), and it's not like they have a large hanger for 2 helicopters.
For PLAN, these is no need to pick this comprised design choice. Either go a bit bigger, which they alreay have with the 052D, have a nice balance between ASW, AAW, and land strike and 7000 ton is really at the bottom limit of multi-purpose ship size. Or just save money, and stay 054A size.

For what it is worth, my conception of a future larger ASW frigate for PLAN certainly includes a dual hangar for operation of two Z-20-class helos (or helo plus UAV package). Perry did this on a 4000-ton hull, so there is no reason it cannot be done on 6000-tons today.

In any case this digression started with my observation that whatever emerges from PLAN's future frigate program will point the way to the longer-term prospects for 052X and 055.
 

Blitzo

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Some years back I argued that 055 could succeed 052X as PLAN's large combatant. I envisioned a three-tier structure of new generation combatants led by 055, with a new ~6,000-ton class frigate and a new ~3000-ton class corvette. The alternative vision was that 055 and 052x would continue to be produced alongside one another. This would undermine the case for a larger frigate to succeed 054A and in turn for a larger corvette to succeed 056A.

Subsequent orders are as they are. There are more 055s coming to be sure, but also more 052Ds and more 054As. The 055/052X vision would therefore appear to have been validated. But while this is certainly the case for the next few years, in the longer term I'm not so sure. We know that there was an 054B program dating back a decade now, and that it was associated with IEP. We know that 054A production came to an end and was then subsequently restarted, while 054B remains nowhere to be seen. The most compelling explanation for these observations is that some kind of development failure or project reorientation occurred with 054B and that more 054As have been ordered to fill the gap. The question is what will eventually emerge from that future frigate program. If what emerges is indeed a significantly larger frigate, the case for the continuation of 052X (or a new "mid-size" destroyer) would be undermined, though perhaps not fatally.

I'm not yet sure if a two or three tier system is optimal (with the 13000t 055 family and the frigate both being two of the tiers) -- nor am I sure what displacement the frigate should be.

Personally. I feel like a 5000t frigate (with growth expansion to 5500t) could be a good middle ground -- for 054B.

Slotting between the 13000t and 5000t weight classes would be a 8000t true clean sheet successor to 052D.


==

The "delays" for 054B I suspect are a combination of introduction of new technologies to 054B from what they may have originally intended back in the late 2000s (assuming 054B would've already been being worked on back then given the build/develop/research a generation method the PLA uses), as well as requirement for more hulls in service that may have been deemed important sometime in the late 2010s deu to the changing strategic environment.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
I'm not yet sure if a two or three tier system is optimal (with the 13000t 055 family and the frigate both being two of the tiers) -- nor am I sure what displacement the frigate should be.

Personally. I feel like a 5000t frigate (with growth expansion to 5500t) could be a good middle ground -- for 054B.

Slotting between the 13000t and 5000t weight classes would be a 8000t true clean sheet successor to 052D.


==

The "delays" for 054B I suspect are a combination of introduction of new technologies to 054B from what they may have originally intended back in the late 2000s (assuming 054B would've already been being worked on back then given the build/develop/research a generation method the PLA uses), as well as requirement for more hulls in service that may have been deemed important sometime in the late 2010s deu to the changing strategic environment.

My guess is a three-tier Navy, but that those tiers are really based around the cost, rather than tonnage.

In a two-tier Navy, they would have to go from a Type-054A/B Frigate to a Type-055, which would see ship construction costs jump 3-4x. But there are many missions where a Type-055 is excessive but a Frigate is insufficient.

But in a 3-tier structure with the Type-054A, Type-052D and Type-055, you see construction costs jump 70%-100% each time.
My guess is that this is the sweet spot in terms of having too many ship classes versus too few.

And as long as each ship class has at least 20-30 ships, that is enough for the production run and ongoing sustainment to be efficient.
 
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