Ukrainian War Developments

[Richard Santos]

I agree that China can potentially gain from doing so. However, this call by the EU and US is most likely not done so in good faith. The US would try to sabotage any Chinese attempts at brokering a deal and then pin the blame on China. At the very least, the US would love to see the Chinese brokering a deal which involves states being allowed to secede from a sovereign nation by popular referendum. Before you know it, the US will be calling for popular referendums in Tibet, Xinjiang, and Taiwan.

It is certainly not wholly in good faith, but it is not in totally bad faith either because china really is the only power big enough to take on this role, that russia could possibly accept. So when EU said only china can do it they are right. Of course they hope china won’t gain from it,

but mark of effective diplomacy is to get a lot more out of an opportunity offered in bad faith than the offerer had anticipated.

 

[taxiya]

Beside it is China turn to repay Soviet Union support in WW II. Here is China moral obligation to repay past debt!

I agree with the rest but not this one.

Relationship between countries are not based on moral debt, but on interests at that specific period. Country do not give support for free, they got immediate return, that is their own safety. In WWII, USSR's immediate return for supporting China was to keep Japan bogged down instead of attacking USSR who was busy with Germany.

Even if one count USSR's support to China as a favour or debt, one must also count Outer Mongolia as China's payment. I don't think Chinese would agree that as a fair deal.

Once again, nobody owns anybody for the past, the only right thing is to look now and forward.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Russia is important as China hinterland in future conflict against the west. Beside it is China turn to repay Soviet Union support in WW II. Here is China moral obligation to repay past debt!

No. China NEVER owed the USSR ANYTHING. China and Russia cooperates today because they have mutual interests, the most important being standing against US-led hegemonic imperialism. Russia and China should continue to cooperate as partners as long as both countries do so in good faith and their mutual interests still align. Whatever happened during the Cold War should not have any impact on Sino-Russian relations today - but should serve as a reminder that relationships could change over time and are dependent on evolving national interests - no such thing as long-term alliance or forever friends when it comes to international relations and geopolitics.

I would differ on this point. China and USSR were even after the Forgotten War. The 156 projects were sort of compensation from URRS to China. Therefore, before 1991, China and USSR were absolutely even. But since then, China did take advantage of some projects, such as Su27/J11 contract. But nothing major. So there is no such thing of China indebted to Russia in any meaningful way. This time, the quasi-alliance is entirely made in USA.

How did China take advantage of Russia from the Su-27 project? The Russians were trying to pimp out Flankers left and right after the collapse of the USSR. By being a customer, China took advantage of Russia?

The problem is that with now Russia being more aggressive, they may be willing to put China out the Russia sphere to weaken Russia by giving concessions to China in some aspect. They can't afford deal with Russia and China at the same time.

US/EU must be desperate to think that would work at the current time. I mean, the Chinese basically invented, "divide and conquer," during the Warring States period.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

-delete-

 

[TK3600]

No. China NEVER owed the USSR ANYTHING. China and Russia cooperates today because they have mutual interests, the most important being standing against US-led hegemonic imperialism. Russia and China should continue to cooperate as partners as long as both countries do so in good faith and their mutual interests still align. Whatever happened during the Cold War should not have any impact on Sino-Russian relations today - but should serve as a reminder that relationships could change over time and are dependent on evolving national interests - no such thing as long-term alliance or forever friends when it comes to international relations and geopolitics.



How did China take advantage of Russia from the Su-27 project? The Russians were trying to pimp out Flankers left and right after the collapse of the USSR. By being a customer, China took advantage of Russia?

He is talking of indeginizing j11 fiasco which was settled.

 

[MortyandRick]

Let's get back on topic guys. Don't want this thread to close again

 

[taxiya]

The problem is that with now Russia being more aggressive, they may be willing to put China out the Russia sphere to weaken Russia by giving concessions to China in some aspect. They can't afford deal with Russia and China at the same time.

Those are not concessions in China's view point.

EU and China relationship has been deteriorating long before Ukrainian crisis. The loss of CAI and Huawei issue is China's loss to name a few. These losses have to be returned regardless what China may do to Ukraine crisis.

So EU may be willing to "give", China is not interested in receiving what is always China's belonging as a goodwill. This is similar to Meng Wanzhou's case. Meng would not and China would not accept her release as a "criminal", only total discharge of the accusation without confession is acceptable. China is willing to take the cost of EU's possible aggression.

EU got itself in the shit hole by antagonizing China then jump on the war wagon of US, they have to pay back first before asking for help.

 

[tokenanalyst]

Go back to topic people or find another thread to post Chinese or history stuff or the moderators are gonna close this thread again.

 

[styx]

china has all to gain from ukraine war, it shoul sustain russia to enlarge the conflict to inflict maximum pain to the west.

 

[Corona]

As the champions of "West is right" haven't spared even the cats, Oak tree & Uncle Vlad Taekwondo so now Russia is LUMBER One :
Russia overtook Iran to become the most sanctioned country in the world - the White House.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500941942355542017

More territory cleared :

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500939697685778439